IETF 117 MADINAS WG Agenda
MAC Address Device Identification for Network and Application Services
Monday, July 24, 2023
15:30 - 17:00 Monday Session III Golden Gate 7-8
Welcome, Agenda Review and Status Update (WG Chairs)
Reviewed the agenda, no comments
MAC Address Randomization current state-of-affairs (Presenter Carlos
J. Bernardos)
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-madinas-mac-address-randomization/
Daniel Borges: Asked if they tested macOS.
Carlos: Clarfied that they focused on mobile OS so no.
Juan-Carlos Zuniga: mentions that these documents are just a snapshot of the implementation.
Warren Kumari: This document is stable, should we have a call for adoption.
Took a poll for last working group call which 21 raised hands, an 3 non-raised hands.
Use cases and Problem statement (Presenter Jerome Henry)
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-madinas-use-cases/
Juan-Carlos Zuniga: The working group hasn't considered which of these solutions
might be helpful. Need to discuss DHCPv4/v6 and SLAAC best practices.
Erik Vyncke: Draft seems to be heavy on wireless and lighter on DHCP, BGP
and other IETF protocols.
Jerome Henry: Agrees draft can improve with more then wireless information.
Status of IEEE 802.11 (Presenter Mark Hamilton)
Juan-Carlos Zuniga: Suggest discussion happen in the open discussion part of the agenda.
WBA OpenRoaming Wireless Federation (Presenter Bruno Tomas)
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tomas-openroaming/
Daniel Borges: Thinks using OpenRoaming at the IETF would be a successful experiment.
Erik Vyncke: IETF discussed using OpenRoaming for IETf-117, but the IESG decided not too.
Juan-Carlos Zuniga: Wasn't clear if the IESG understood the purpose of the experiment.
Experimental results from OpenRoaming tests (Presenter Warren
Kumari)
Warren Kumari: CUI was the same on both the iPhone and iPad.
Alan DeKok: CUI should be different per session, it's a bad implementation decision.
Alan DeKok: This probably a failure of the documentation.
Clemens Schrimpe: Do you have any results for Apple Watch?
Warren Kumari: No, i can look into this a later date.
Daniel Borges: Were the experiments with iOS 16?
Warren Kumari: Yes
Daniel Borges: Where do we fix the CUI problem? Radius/OpenRoaming?
Warren Kumari: We used the radius proxy, and it's send the Identifier.
Mark Grayson: OpenRoaming says CUI should be when privacy set.
Alan DeKok: RFC 4372, says CUI should be temporary long enough to be useful. This should be clarified in the OpenRoaming document.
Warren Kumari: It may change over time, weeks or months.
Juan-Carlos Zuniga: Happy with the issues uncovered with this experiment, it's what we wanted trying to run it on IETF network but at a bigger scale, with more implementations, more IDPs, etc.
Joe Clarke: Likes Alan's comment about fixing this. Looking into how to add different identfications.
Warren Kumari: Noticed the user ids might be tied to SIM numbers.
Mark Grayson: A Hash will be used so this shouldn't be a problem.
Clemens Schrimpe: How do we think about verifying people are using the standard.
Alam DeKok: Specifications need to written to clarify what the intention is an how to implement it.
Daniel Borges: Where other IDPs used in this experiment?
Warren Kumari: We could create test content for verifying different IDPs.
Daniel Borges: Who is doing the testing? OpenRoaming?
Bruno Tomas: WBA has legal contracts in place to resolve issues. PKI allows for removing bad actors in case there are bad practices or abuses.
Mark Grayson: According to the legal terms in WBA agreements, PII can be used for troubleshooting, but it can't be explioted.
Erik Vyncke: Thanks to everyone for the interesting discussion.
Next Steps (WG Chairs w/AD Support)
Juan-Carlos Zuniga: Looking for a Iterim Meeting to continue this discussion in about a month. Watch the list for more information.