[{"author": "Bron Gondwana", "text": "

(I note that reactions don't show in the meetecho client)

", "time": "2023-11-06T08:32:50Z"}, {"author": "Francesca Palombini", "text": "

hello Bron! hi everyone

", "time": "2023-11-06T08:32:53Z"}, {"author": "Francesca Palombini", "text": "

thank you Bron! :)

", "time": "2023-11-06T08:34:31Z"}, {"author": "Jim Fenton", "text": "

Yes, thnk you Bron1

", "time": "2023-11-06T08:36:43Z"}, {"author": "Jim Fenton", "text": "

I'm not a good typist yet today am I

", "time": "2023-11-06T08:37:01Z"}, {"author": "Francesca Palombini", "text": "

that was still understandable though, so good enough, Jim :)

", "time": "2023-11-06T08:37:47Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "

I'd lke to see more evidence of a likely deployed base before recommending chartering.

", "time": "2023-11-06T08:51:06Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "

If that exists, then I agree with Cullen, form a WG.

", "time": "2023-11-06T08:51:41Z"}, {"author": "Cullen Jennings", "text": "

The remote audio is really loud in the room

", "time": "2023-11-06T08:56:24Z"}, {"author": "Lorenzo Miniero", "text": "

Cullen: checking, thanks for the heads up!

", "time": "2023-11-06T08:56:50Z"}, {"author": "Spencer Dawkins", "text": "

Lorenzo, I'm not an audio engineer, but I think I'm hearing the remote speaker echo in the room - I'm also participating remotely

", "time": "2023-11-06T08:57:51Z"}, {"author": "Carsten Bormann", "text": "

He is a bit strong

", "time": "2023-11-06T08:58:16Z"}, {"author": "Lorenzo Miniero", "text": "

Spencer: probably related to that, and the fact it's a big room, we sent someone there to address that

", "time": "2023-11-06T08:59:00Z"}, {"author": "Lorenzo Miniero", "text": "

Is it better now?

", "time": "2023-11-06T08:59:28Z"}, {"author": "Jim Fenton", "text": "

This room has a lot of echo in general. I'm using earbuds at the chair table to understand speakers better (local as well as remote).

", "time": "2023-11-06T08:59:45Z"}, {"author": "Hafiz Farooq", "text": "

I believe room is not sound proof, getting echo from other rooms

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:01:06Z"}, {"author": "Bron Gondwana", "text": "

also anyone logged in with full client who hasn't muted

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:01:26Z"}, {"author": "John Levine", "text": "

It would be nice if the chairs had a \"mute everyone else\" button

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:02:05Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "

I believe they do.

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:02:20Z"}, {"author": "Shuping Peng", "text": "

yes

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:02:42Z"}, {"author": "Lorenzo Miniero", "text": "

The \"mute everyone else\" is not in the new UI yet

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:02:52Z"}, {"author": "Jonathan Lennox", "text": "

Only for \"mute audio input\", not \"mute audio output\" which is what you'd want to prevent competing in-room playback.

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:03:02Z"}, {"author": "Shuping Peng", "text": "

I used the old version...

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:03:24Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": "

Jonathan - lets pursue that somewhere other than this chat

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:03:48Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": "

(I'd offer #tools)

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:04:17Z"}, {"author": "Jonathan Lennox", "text": "

Taken to #tools>meetecho

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:06:43Z"}, {"author": "Mark Nottingham", "text": "

YANG -> JSON -> CBOR -> JSON-LD -> Triples

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:13:27Z"}, {"author": "Francesca Palombini", "text": "

Also CBOR is not chartered to do anything like this

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:14:57Z"}, {"author": "Francesca Palombini", "text": "

(right now, of course... but still)

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:15:17Z"}, {"author": "Cullen Jennings", "text": "

Did someone catch name of person asking question - thanks for notes

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:16:35Z"}, {"author": "Francesca Palombini", "text": "

Austin Wright

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:16:44Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "

https://json-schema.org/

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:17:19Z"}, {"author": "Christian Ams\u00fcss", "text": "

(had to switch over, but looking at the notes): CBOR may or may not like this as an action item (sorry didn't get all the details), but I think the group can at least provide some input.

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:17:46Z"}, {"author": "Rohan Mahy", "text": "

Assumption is that CBOR is not interested in this. Suggestion (from Austin) was to get feedback from JSON Schema

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:18:39Z"}, {"author": "Christian Ams\u00fcss", "text": "

At least we should get back to that mail thread, and I'll reference it as related-ongoing work on the Tuesday meeting.

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:19:15Z"}, {"author": "Harald Alvestrand", "text": "

I am reminded of RFC 3254.

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:22:43Z"}, {"author": "Richard Barnes", "text": "

this state sync WG just seems like it will make a thing that nobody likes, but which will create \"why aren't you using X\" questions forever. like Kerberos.

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:27:00Z"}, {"author": "Mark Nottingham", "text": "

The echo seems to be coming from the back of the room -- almost like speakers back there have a slight delay

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:27:34Z"}, {"author": "Christian Grothoff", "text": "

This would also be a good fit for our work on Set Reconciliation (https://lsd.gnunet.org/lsd0003/).

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:28:07Z"}, {"author": "Francesca Palombini", "text": "

to the people in the queue, it would be appreciated if you could end your comment with your opinion on the dispatch question (if you have any)

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:31:29Z"}, {"author": "Spencer Dawkins", "text": "

I'm slightly waiting for a current AD to speak to the point about an IETF WG doing research ...

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:31:49Z"}, {"author": "Ted Hardie", "text": "

@Francesca. In case I was not clear: take the abstract model to the Formal Methods RG, narrow the scope of the other work to a single application domain.

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:35:35Z"}, {"author": "Francesca Palombini", "text": "

Thanks Ted! (it was clear :) )

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:36:06Z"}, {"author": "Eliot Lear", "text": "

Ok now I am not neutral. I would want to see this reproposed AFTER a disparate second use was deployed.

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:39:45Z"}, {"author": "Spencer Dawkins", "text": "

It would be great for us to think about scalability for this - for example, would this work make sense in a MoQ environment? We sure are talking about most of the building blocks on these slides ... and if we're not talking about them now, we should be. (MoQ isn't a serious suggestion, just one possibility)

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:41:35Z"}, {"author": "Harald Alvestrand", "text": "

Using what I was thinking of in RFC 3254: Does this mechanism support strict consistency, strict internal consistency, eventual converging consistency or all of the above?

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:46:28Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "

Given the number of variations of this theme in different environments and the comments that have been made about many special cases, this seems like an opportunity to solve the problem of two many standards by adding one, e.g., https://xkcd.com/927/

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:48:39Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "

don't we get ~one proposal per IETF that is related to e-mail? and we always say \"we're not making an e-mail WG\"?

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:57:41Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "

An \"open\" chartered mail WG keeps getting proposed and keeps scaring us in terms of scope creep and the lke.

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:58:12Z"}, {"author": "Jim Fenton", "text": "

Maybe not an open charter but rather a WG whose scope can be more dynamic than usual.

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:58:53Z"}, {"author": "Francesca Palombini", "text": "

anybody is free to work and propose a charter

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:59:01Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "

but clearly there is interest. i'm not volunteering to create such a thing, and i don't know what specific scars people have that make them so shy; but why would we keep turning it away? e-mail is not dying (perhaps sadly) so how do we fix it?

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:59:07Z"}, {"author": "Jim Fenton", "text": "

(scope = charter)

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:59:08Z"}, {"author": "Bron Gondwana", "text": "

queue got closed already

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:59:26Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "

I have to say I appreciate everyone being so openly sympathetic to my time. :)

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:59:40Z"}, {"author": "Bron Gondwana", "text": "

I am also keen to have one

", "time": "2023-11-06T09:59:41Z"}, {"author": "Francesca Palombini", "text": "

one = wg Bron?

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:00:16Z"}, {"author": "Bron Gondwana", "text": "

the big problem with IETF email people is that many have been running their own server for 30 years and it works for them so they dismiss the challenges of those operating at different scales

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:00:29Z"}, {"author": "Bron Gondwana", "text": "

Francesca: yes, a WG for these - they keep coming

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:00:40Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": "

why does it have to wait a cycle?

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:00:46Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "

it's not just scale -- there's well-known longstanding failures (even those 30 years) that we've never tackled

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:01:00Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "

and when i've tried to get security-related e-mail stuff into LAMPS i get the feeling i'm annoying Russ and Tim

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:01:40Z"}, {"author": "Bron Gondwana", "text": "

I have some other work (ARC-bis) that isn't yet baked enough to bring to IETF but hopefully by Brisbane

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:02:06Z"}, {"author": "Jim Fenton", "text": "

@Robert I think there is recent experience with M3AAWG proposing DKIM work and then not showing up to participate. Don't want to repeat that experience.

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:02:14Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "

(and maybe annoying the rest of the LAMPS group, for that matter, since they want to talk about things like X.509 certificate maintenance which seems pretty unrelated)

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:02:40Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": "

@jim : Why does doing the work to prove there is a pipeline have to be given a deadline of the next IETF meeting instead of, say, Dec 1?

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:03:06Z"}, {"author": "Jim Fenton", "text": "

@Robert I think also this is tied to M3AAWG meeting schedules.

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:04:05Z"}, {"author": "John Levine", "text": "

@Robert Sparks M3 met last month in NY, will meet in Feb in S.F. They do have working mailing lists but are not great at getting work done between meetings.

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:07:24Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "

Hunter green?!?!?! The horror!!!

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:08:40Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": "

still have sipcore etc in whatever we end up calling art

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:09:01Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": "

so \"all real time has been shuffled away\" is not accurate

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:09:12Z"}, {"author": "Jonathan Lennox", "text": "

I mean SIP is an application

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:09:24Z"}, {"author": "Ben Campbell", "text": "

Maybe WIT should be called RAI ;-)

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:09:33Z"}, {"author": "Ted Hardie", "text": "

I agree with Jonathan, but it is a bikeshed color argument at the end of the day.

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:09:50Z"}, {"author": "Jonathan Lennox", "text": "

WIT = QUICAREA

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:09:56Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "

@chairs: One announcement we left out. I can do it at the end before we close.

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:11:09Z"}, {"author": "Ben Campbell", "text": "

It occurs to me to wonder if STIR was intended to stay in ART or move to SEC. I didn't see it mentioned on the slide, so I assume ART.

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:12:00Z"}, {"author": "Francesca Palombini", "text": "

@meetecho there is quite a lot of echo when standing on the presenter's spot, which makes it hard to hear comments from the crowd

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:12:20Z"}, {"author": "Jonathan Lennox", "text": "

Ben: IMO better to leave it with other SIP-related stuff

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:12:51Z"}, {"author": "Lorenzo Miniero", "text": "

Francesca: we'll tell the AV team!

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:13:03Z"}, {"author": "Francesca Palombini", "text": "

@Ben - yes, that was the thought (stay in ART)

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:13:26Z"}, {"author": "Shuping Peng", "text": "

@Murray, sure.

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:13:31Z"}, {"author": "Ben Campbell", "text": "

@Jonathan Lennox I agree

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:13:33Z"}, {"author": "Jim Fenton", "text": "

@meetecho Yes, a monitor speaker for the speaker would be helpful, if that wouldn't create harmful feedback.

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:13:45Z"}, {"author": "Harald Alvestrand", "text": "

AVTCORE may have to split into RTCORE and QUICAVT?

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:13:56Z"}, {"author": "Jonathan Lennox", "text": "

I think we'll manage. :-)

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:14:20Z"}, {"author": "Spencer Dawkins", "text": "

Thank you, Rohan - that's always the question for new work (\"what are you reusing, what are you extending, what are you inventing?\")

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:18:42Z"}, {"author": "Spencer Dawkins", "text": "

If someone is talking about an existing application protocol here, that's easy, but when a proposal touches two or more working groups, especially across areas, we really need to understand what the IETF needs to do.

", "time": "2023-11-06T10:21:22Z"}]