echo/feedback in the room is bad for remote
", "time": "2023-11-06T14:34:40Z"}, {"author": "Nick Doty", "text": "that's improved
", "time": "2023-11-06T14:35:05Z"}, {"author": "Nathan Alan", "text": "https://dnsrf.org/research/isto/index.html
", "time": "2023-11-06T14:43:11Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Sullivan", "text": "Just to be clear from the slide from before, the funding for this institute comes from the Internet Society Foundation, and does not represent any opinion about the work on the part of the Internet Society. Funding decisions in the Foundation are made in part by an arm's length funding committee.
", "time": "2023-11-06T14:44:46Z"}, {"author": "Nick Doty", "text": "from browsing the tracker, I can't find any links or any way to see the drafts that are being standardized, or find a way to engage.
", "time": "2023-11-06T14:47:28Z"}, {"author": "Nick Doty", "text": "(maybe the current SDOs don't support public review or engagement)
", "time": "2023-11-06T14:47:44Z"}, {"author": "Nick Doty", "text": "if members of the public can't even access the documents, why or how could we monitor, much less engage?
", "time": "2023-11-06T14:57:21Z"}, {"author": "Nick Doty", "text": "if ITU-T doesn't want feedback from civil society, I don't see the value in investing time and resources in tracking the activity that we can't even read or respond to.
", "time": "2023-11-06T14:57:55Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Campling", "text": "Perhaps this will/should lead to a discussion with ITU-T about document access?
", "time": "2023-11-06T14:59:32Z"}, {"author": "Nick Doty", "text": "(getting intermittent audio only)
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:03:06Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Campling", "text": "Smae in teh room
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:03:15Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "Have you looked at ISO (and maybe IEC), particularly not just their standards but their model of balance among sectors? And the extensive existing literature on the subject, including comparisons of different SDO-type groups?
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:03:33Z"}, {"author": "Nick Doty", "text": "@John, are those standards or drafts public, and do the groups actually want public engagement?
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:04:33Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Campling", "text": "The sound is still a bit challenging, at least in the room - is there anything MeetEcho can do to help?
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:05:50Z"}, {"author": "Ignacio Castro", "text": "I think it is from Sebastian side
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:06:09Z"}, {"author": "Ignacio Castro", "text": "Meetecho?
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:06:17Z"}, {"author": "Lorenzo Miniero", "text": "Yes, we're listening, and it does sound like an issue on his side
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:06:35Z"}, {"author": "Ignacio Castro", "text": "ack
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:07:14Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "@Nick, I think the procedural documents are public, but can easily check. How many of the historical ones are readily available may be an open question. As for as \"public engagement\" is concerned, mostly via their National Member Bodies but that is, IMO, actually more public that ITU-T with representation/participation from governments and and industry-type \"Sector Members\". If the discussion is worth pursuing, contact me offlist (preferably after this week)
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:10:42Z"}, {"author": "Nick Doty", "text": "@John, my experience of ISO so far is that I'm not allowed to read the drafts or provide feedback, and anyone who wants to use the ISO drafts has to pay a large fee and agree not to let anyone else read them. national bodies seem very ineffective at actually gathering feedback, so I'm not sure when or why we should engage.
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:12:24Z"}, {"author": "Nick Doty", "text": "(happy to move offline, sorry for the distraction)
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:12:56Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "Is this across all mailing lists or just, e.g., the ietf@ietf list?
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:32:23Z"}, {"author": "Stephen McQuistin", "text": "this is across lists related to WGs
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:37:30Z"}, {"author": "Nick Doty", "text": "is it easy to distinguish between regular participants who benefit discussion vs regular participants who reduce discussion?
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:41:04Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "@Nick: National bodies differ. Working drafts are largely unavailable except to participants in their development or those National Member bodies. Finished standards -- the only thing for which there are established (and usually high) fees if one buys them from ISO -- are also often available through national bodies at far lower cost. Many (or most) of them are available through libraries that are available to the public, which is at variance with your \"not let anyone else read them\" assertion. And there are provisions for others to obtain working documents for free if they are doing relevant work on standards development. So there is obviously some confusion here (you are not the only one) and a few real problems with communication and coordination that, IMO, the IAB in recent years has aggravated. Again, more off list.
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:41:39Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Campling", "text": "@Nick Question for the mic?
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:42:04Z"}, {"author": "Nick Doty", "text": "(@andrew, no, probably just better as a side thought)
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:43:18Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Campling", "text": ":+1:
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:43:57Z"}, {"author": "Mallory Knodel", "text": "The paper https://aaai.org/papers/00500-19310-the-web-we-weave-untangling-the-social-graph-of-the-ietf/
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:44:54Z"}, {"author": "Stephen McQuistin", "text": "to the last question, worth noting that the IETF isn't producing the same number of RFCs; output is declining in that sense
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:45:52Z"}, {"author": "Nick Doty", "text": "@john, I hope I am wrong. but if it's simply a failure of communication, it is an enormous and fundamental one.
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:46:16Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "@Nick: Yes.
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:50:53Z"}]