My only concern with this scenario is it starts to heavily overlap with the idea of a shared calendar. Is email the right protocol to do shared calendar sync?
", "time": "2023-11-06T14:45:31Z"}, {"author": "Alexey Melnikov", "text": "@Darrel: maybe :-). Let's have this discussion on the mailing list
", "time": "2023-11-06T14:46:56Z"}, {"author": "Jim Fenton", "text": "Another automatable thing is for the MUA of the person sending to the vacationer so that it knows when to warn the user composing a new email ot the vacationer..
", "time": "2023-11-06T14:48:21Z"}, {"author": "Alexey Melnikov", "text": "Questions/comments at the end for the use cases document
", "time": "2023-11-06T14:54:03Z"}, {"author": "Michael Richardson", "text": "I like Email. All of them.
", "time": "2023-11-06T14:54:44Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "Thanks for the pointer to RFC9078. Excuse me while I go send that link to a few people.
", "time": "2023-11-06T14:55:49Z"}, {"author": "Michael Richardson", "text": "I really appreciate hotel/travel confirmation emails. Some services scrape them from emails, which very mixed results, and no actual standard to refer to. My favourite London hotel's confirmations are completely un-scrapable, it seems, and I wish I had more concrete thing to point them at.
", "time": "2023-11-06T14:57:46Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "I get all of those at once sometimes.
", "time": "2023-11-06T14:58:12Z"}, {"author": "Michael Richardson", "text": ". o O ( here is a video from your Ring of your package being stolen from your doorstep. Would you like to order another? )
", "time": "2023-11-06T14:59:03Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "I think the idea of a use-case document is really helpful. It will help make the concept of \"structured email\" real to product people who will influence adoption in MUAs.
", "time": "2023-11-06T14:59:23Z"}, {"author": "Michael Richardson", "text": "Darrel Miller said:
\n\n\nI think the idea of a use-case document is really helpful. It will help make the concept of \"structured email\" real to product people who will influence adoption in MUAs.
\n
It doesn't have to be MUAs. It can be third-party services and/or applications, and since it will have a Media Type, it can be passed off to another local program.
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:00:12Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "@Michael Agreed. It wasn't my intent to exclude other potential users of the doc.
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:02:04Z"}, {"author": "Alexey Melnikov", "text": "As a participant: I prefer just 1 serialization for now
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:06:35Z"}, {"author": "Michael Richardson", "text": "Darrel Miller said:
\n\n\n@Michael Agreed. It wasn't my intent to exclude other potential users of the doc.
\n
I\"m saying that we don't have to wait for MUA product people to be convinced. We can have stand-alone systems sooner.
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:09:42Z"}, {"author": "Michael Richardson", "text": "Alexey Melnikov said:
\n\n\nAs a participant: I prefer just 1 serialization for now
\n
Once we pick XML, we will have to support it forever. If that 1% is really relevant, then meh.
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:10:11Z"}, {"author": "Phillip Tao", "text": "I agree with Alexey that we should keep things as limited and focused as possible, especially to start with. We don't want this to end up like S/MIME, where there are so many algorithms that are allowed for everything that client compatibility ends up being all over the place.
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:15:53Z"}, {"author": "Phillip Tao", "text": "I'm wary of non-representation as a vector of abuse. I guess that's probably covered later in the security section?
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:18:19Z"}, {"author": "Alexey Melnikov", "text": "@Phillip - if not, please bring this up on the mailing list!
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:18:50Z"}, {"author": "Michael Richardson", "text": "Sorry, email address change emails, if they violate GDPR, then they violate it in text form now, so providers should allow that to be turned off now.
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:24:59Z"}, {"author": "Phillip Tao", "text": "I pretty much agree with Bron, but to play devil's advocate a bit, including PII in structured data means lower cost to attackers to extract this data, which may incentivize some spammers/attacks to do things/do more things than they're doing today.
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:28:18Z"}, {"author": "Michael Richardson", "text": "Phillip Tao said:
\n\n\nI pretty much agree with Bron, but to play devil's advocate a bit, including PII in structured data means lower cost to attackers to extract this data, which may incentivize some spammers/attacks to do things/do more things than they're doing today.
\n
so, the spammers and attackers are doing just fine today, and the lack of a good way to communicate this information means that my legitimate updates are getting lost.
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:31:10Z"}, {"author": "Michael Richardson", "text": "is this reason for this Message-Context, because the MIME Ttype would otherwise have a multipart, with HTML for legacy receivers?
\n(otherwise, we could say, application/structured or something like that)
When parameters are added to Content-Disposition, this shows up for free in IMAP BODYSTRUCTURE. So there are counter arguments to what John Levine just said.
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:37:12Z"}, {"author": "Phillip Tao", "text": "@Michael - Sure, that's why I said I said I was playing devil's advocate. I think the cost-benefit still tilts heavily in favor of allowing PII in the structured data.
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:38:09Z"}, {"author": "Michael Richardson", "text": "If there is a clear benefit that MUAs can provide to senders that sign their emails, that would be a major boon to making email signing more common. Certainly, if encrypted, then more information/details could be included, and that would incentivise the user to set that up.
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:47:55Z"}, {"author": "Jim Fenton", "text": "There's a related thing, \"Expect Signed Mail\" from dkg that is being discussed in secdispatch right now.
", "time": "2023-11-06T15:55:15Z"}]