Brendan volunteered
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:31:35Z"}, {"author": "St\u00e9phane Bortzmeyer", "text": "Alissas's sound is too low
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:33:11Z"}, {"author": "Tim Geoghegan", "text": "Thank you Brendan!
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:33:39Z"}, {"author": "Alissa Cooper", "text": "I have tried to fix it, if anyone has tips, please let me know
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:33:48Z"}, {"author": "Alissa Cooper", "text": "Could folks nudge Brendan to join the meeting in MeetEcho?
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:34:09Z"}, {"author": "Sean Turner", "text": "For those that are remote there are actually about 30 people in the room.
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:36:44Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "+1 on the terms!
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:38:24Z"}, {"author": "Travis Ralston", "text": "I second the motion
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:38:35Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "How about SII and IIS
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:38:56Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": ":)
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:38:57Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "II and SI are probably sufficient.
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:39:05Z"}, {"author": "Ryo Kajiwara", "text": "8361?
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:42:32Z"}, {"author": "Richard Barnes", "text": "IIS\u2122
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:43:43Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "@Ryo Kajiwara RFC 3861
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:44:27Z"}, {"author": "Ryo Kajiwara", "text": "oh, \"thirty-eight\" sixty one, I might have misheard it. thanks!
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:45:20Z"}, {"author": "Femi Olumofin", "text": "Once we have a response to A, figuring out the remaining identifiers that Eric outlined (SSI, keys) should follow.
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:47:01Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "@Ryo Kajiwara He is mistakenly saying 8361, but he means 3861
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:48:01Z"}, {"author": "Alissa Cooper", "text": "Semantically, A has to be embedded in B anyway
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:49:43Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "What sort of entity is meant to provide an II? Can someone give me an example?
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:53:21Z"}, {"author": "Tim Geoghegan", "text": "A phone number
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:54:21Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "@Tim Geoghegan That is the II. But who is providing the II? I mean, I understand I might give my phone number or my email address to a messaging provider and say \"This is my II; I want you to provide me messaaging service\". But who are we expecting to be providing such an II or authoritative over such an II?
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:56:06Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "my instinct is that it is better to return key information during discovery
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:56:12Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "but it is also 4am and i might not be thinking clearly
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:57:30Z"}, {"author": "Sean Turner", "text": "sorry to put you on the spot dud
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:57:45Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "@DKG: I think the problem with that is it loads the discovery system a lot more as the keys need to be refreshed very often
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:57:45Z"}, {"author": "Sean Turner", "text": "dude
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:57:48Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "no worries
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:58:07Z"}, {"author": "Harald Alvestrand", "text": "If I already have the keys for an user, all that getting keys from the DP gives me is the chance of being fooled.
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:58:53Z"}, {"author": "Tim Geoghegan", "text": "@Pete Resnick https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rosenberg-mimi-discovery-reqs/01/ has some discussion of this for phone numbers and emails, but I agree it's a tricky question
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:59:03Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "i was talking about signing id keys, fwiw
", "time": "2024-03-19T07:59:16Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "I have tried to figure out the answer from Jonathan's document, but I'm not getting it. But I'm a bit dim.
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:01:58Z"}, {"author": "Femi Olumofin", "text": "Once I know, a contact is reachable at an MSP, Retrieval of the SSI/Key can follow at the point of messaging the contact.A can be embedded in B as Alicia mentioned, but there might be cases where A returns multiple MSPS, and the a choice will be needed on what MSP to proceed with for B.
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:02:49Z"}, {"author": "Tim Geoghegan", "text": "Section 2, definitions, discusses the notion of Telephone Number Service Providers and Email Providers, which I think are the entities you're asking about who are authoritative for those IIs?
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:03:40Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "most end users have no idea whether a phone number is a mobile or non-mobile
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:05:45Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "You mean they don't know if their number is attached to a mobile phone? :)
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:06:13Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "and # porrtability suggests that mobile #s can become non-mobile and vice versa
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:06:15Z"}, {"author": "St\u00e9phane Bortzmeyer", "text": "Isn't it a privacy issue to use telephone numbers (cf. recent SIgnal move)?
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:06:36Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "i mean they don't know whether their contacts phone number is mobile or not
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:06:36Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "@DKG: yes, I knew
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:06:54Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "@Stephane, people who care about that level of privacy aren't interested in being discoverable
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:07:50Z"}, {"author": "Femi Olumofin", "text": "@Daniel Gillmor indeed, the user may be unwilling to share phone # with a service for privacy reasons.
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:08:28Z"}, {"author": "Vittorio Bertola", "text": "I simply would not want all people who know my 25-year-old mobile number to be able to reach me on MIMI.
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:10:24Z"}, {"author": "Travis Ralston", "text": "I don't believe folks are saying that discovery is a requirement to use the system.
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:11:46Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "ISTM the only reason that telephone numbers are an interesting II is because it staples the II to a person with a phone provider as the authority.
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:12:27Z"}, {"author": "Travis Ralston", "text": "Though there may need to be a notion of consent for who can discover a mapping - maybe only coworkers (by whatever definition) can use that number to find you?
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:12:35Z"}, {"author": "Vittorio Bertola", "text": "If the only alternative to phone numbers is using SSIs, then you are introducing vendor lock-in.
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:13:00Z"}, {"author": "Jim Reid", "text": "What happens when >1 person/whatever shares the same phone number?
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:13:35Z"}, {"author": "Ben Campbell", "text": "I wonder if an email SII is just a string SII that coincidentally looks like an email address.
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:13:53Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "@Pete, it's only relatively recently that phone numbers are associated with a single individual
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:13:53Z"}, {"author": "Travis Ralston", "text": "Second order SIIs might also work. Over in Matrix our IDs are routable, but arguably independent.
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:14:20Z"}, {"author": "Marvin Wi\u00dffeld", "text": "DeltaChat uses email addresses not only as identifier, but also distributes messages through email (SMTP+IMAP)
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:14:49Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "DeltaChat is in fact e-mail with a chat interface and autocrypt-facilitated OpenPGP
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:16:28Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "the idea of a single global DP seems like it presumes a political consensus that might not exist
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:18:45Z"}, {"author": "Tim Geoghegan", "text": "Have the UN run it, I guess
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:19:20Z"}, {"author": "Travis Ralston", "text": "The UN is not immune from politics either ;)
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:19:46Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "right, the UN, a classic example of functional global political consensus
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:19:53Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "@Daniel Gillmor I can't imagine a world in which we can have that political consensus
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:20:09Z"}, {"author": "Sean Turner", "text": ":rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:20:10Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "If an MSP runs its own DP, it is no longer provider independent, so I'm not even sure what that means anymore.
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:20:54Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "geographical sharding or jurisdictional sharding?
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:22:24Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "If an MSP runs its own DP, it is no longer provider independent, so I'm not even sure what that means anymore.
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:22:55Z"}, {"author": "Sean Turner", "text": "I think they were equated
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:22:59Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "yeah but i think the real issue has to be jurisdictional
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:23:29Z"}, {"author": "Monika Ermert", "text": "For oracles, they sit in Delphi traditionally - the EU Commission will agree :wink:
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:24:15Z"}, {"author": "St\u00e9phane Bortzmeyer", "text": "And traditionally, their replies were undecipherable.
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:24:56Z"}, {"author": "Monika Ermert", "text": "just like some protocols
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:25:38Z"}, {"author": "Jim Reid", "text": "I can't imagine MSPs like (say) Apple or Whatsapp would want anyone else to provide the DP for their users.
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:26:59Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "the MSP is authoritative for the SSI, but it is not authoritative for the SII
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:27:51Z"}, {"author": "Marvin Wi\u00dffeld", "text": "MSP can also resolve SII locally (without going to a third party DP) for SII that would resolve to an SSI they host themselves. That's likely what most providers will want to do
", "time": "2024-03-19T08:29:01Z"}]