I like https://accedian.com/blog/the-difference-between-qoe-and-qos-and-why-it-matters/
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:00:24Z"}, {"author": "Alper Demir", "text": "I understand that we need to focus on both QoS and QoE. Am I right?
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:02:38Z"}, {"author": "Alper Demir", "text": "Could you please share the Zulip stream channel again?
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:04:38Z"}, {"author": "Dhruv Dhody", "text": "https://zulip.ietf.org/#narrow/stream/teas
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:05:26Z"}, {"author": "Alper Demir", "text": ":revolving_hearts:
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:06:16Z"}, {"author": "John Scudder", "text": "Indeed thanks for all the work on getting those over the finish line.
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:06:37Z"}, {"author": "Dhruv Dhody", "text": ":raised_hands:
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:07:24Z"}, {"author": "Vishnu Beeram", "text": "Special mention to Adrian for holding the pen on both of these marathon efforts..
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:07:44Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "Back to Alper...
\nIt is fairly hard for a network to determine QoE. It can measure and deliver abstract service parameters, and hence achieve QoS, and it can deliver QoS that might enable better QoE. But it is very hard to build a system where the network can directly deliver QoE
can remote ppl hear Pavan ok?
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:12:41Z"}, {"author": "Ketan Talaulikar", "text": "Yes
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:12:49Z"}, {"author": "John Scudder", "text": "TY
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:12:54Z"}, {"author": "Boris Khasanov", "text": "yes
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:12:55Z"}, {"author": "Alper Demir", "text": "Back to Adrian... I think it depends on how we define the KPIs of QoE. Am I right?
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:13:14Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "Well, yes :-)
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:13:32Z"}, {"author": "Alper Demir", "text": "Yes
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:13:33Z"}, {"author": "John Scudder", "text": "What's \"YDR\"?
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:13:33Z"}, {"author": "Ketan Talaulikar", "text": "yang doc review
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:13:50Z"}, {"author": "Gyan Mishra", "text": "I am remote and volume was very low but now it\u2019s better
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:13:51Z"}, {"author": "Lou Berger", "text": "reminder -- please help out with note taking at https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-119-teas?edit
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:17:40Z"}, {"author": "Alper Demir", "text": "Can I have the presenters name now?
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:26:51Z"}, {"author": "John Scudder", "text": "Paolo Volpato (per the agenda)
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:27:41Z"}, {"author": "John Scudder", "text": "(and his badge :-)
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:28:01Z"}, {"author": "Alper Demir", "text": "Can I have the speaker's name?
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:29:17Z"}, {"author": "Lou Berger", "text": "see https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-119-teas?both
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:30:15Z"}, {"author": "Dhruv Dhody", "text": "Maybe we all need training in SVGart and modernize a bit :smile:
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:32:35Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "ASCII Art FTW
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:33:05Z"}, {"author": "Italo Busi", "text": "Dhruv Dhody said:
\n\n\nMaybe we all need training in SVGart and modernize a bit :)
\n
still hard to see the difference with black&white graphics :blush:
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:33:15Z"}, {"author": "Alper Demir", "text": "Dhruv: Sometime we need old fashion, I believe:grinning:
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:35:35Z"}, {"author": "Italo Busi", "text": "The correct github link for the ACTN POI WG I-D is now: https://github.com/IETF-TEAS-WG/actn-poi
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:35:38Z"}, {"author": "Alper Demir", "text": "Is there a work item on applying TEAS for IoT domain?
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:39:18Z"}, {"author": "Italo Busi", "text": "Alper Demir said:
\n\n\nIs there a work item on applying TEAS for IoT domain?
\n
none that I am aware of
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:39:58Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "If you mean _applying_ you should possibly look at the iotops working group
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:40:18Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "Although they are more interested in how devices join networks
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:40:47Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "So you are probably talking about low power networks?
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:41:04Z"}, {"author": "Alper Demir", "text": "yes
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:41:14Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "As the iotops charter says
\nThe IETF works on a number of technologies related to IoT. This includes, but is not limited to work done in ACE, ANIMA, CBOR, CORE, DRIP, LAKE, LPWAN, LWIG, ROLL, SUIT, TEEP, 6LO, 6TISCH, and other working groups.
I know that PCE has been discussed as a planning and provisioning tool for some IoT network technologies
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:42:51Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "There is an IoT Directorate that may be able to help you
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:43:12Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/iotdir/about/
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:43:38Z"}, {"author": "Alper Demir", "text": "It seems they do not have TEAS on their agenda. I have already checked. Thank you, Adrian.
", "time": "2024-03-19T03:44:22Z"}, {"author": "Gyan Mishra", "text": "AFAIK I believe SLO measurable characteristics like QOS \u201cnetwork side\u201d where SLE not measurable characteristics like SLE \u201ccustomer side\u201d
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:01:20Z"}, {"author": "Gyan Mishra", "text": "Trying to depict the comparison of QOS to QOE as it pertains to network slicing framework
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:02:22Z"}, {"author": "Dhruv Dhody", "text": "While I agree with using a consistent language argument, not soo much on duplication because to me it is more about intent service model and a network realization model (and sure there would be some duplication is to be expected)...
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:06:31Z"}, {"author": "Alper Demir", "text": "who is presenter?
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:06:32Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "That was Italo Busi
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:09:14Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "(You maybe need to look at the agenda :- )
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:09:28Z"}, {"author": "Alper Demir", "text": "Thank you, Adrian.
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:11:21Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "@Greg: We are not the 3gpp
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:18:07Z"}, {"author": "Dhruv Dhody", "text": "https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9543.html#name-ietf-network-slice-composit
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:18:39Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "Thanks Dhruv, you beat me to it
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:19:00Z"}, {"author": "Dhruv Dhody", "text": "The definition already exist...
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:19:07Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "It's almost like we never wrote RFC 9543
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:20:55Z"}, {"author": "Dhruv Dhody", "text": "Maybe \"Composition\" v/s \"composite\"?
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:21:02Z"}, {"author": "Ketan Talaulikar", "text": "The new thing is not composite slice but perhaps this ?
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:21:05Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "\"this\" ?
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:21:24Z"}, {"author": "Ketan Talaulikar", "text": "I mean perhaps hierarchical NRP or composite NRP ?
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:21:30Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "I would think that composite slices applies to carriers carrier and cooperating carriers
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:22:20Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "I think that composite NRPs is a matter for how the operator chooses to virtualise their network
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:22:43Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "It seems very unlikely (to me) that an NRP will span multiple operators
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:23:12Z"}, {"author": "Ketan Talaulikar", "text": "Likely not. It would be simply about mapping the \"indication in the packet\" as it crosses the domain boundary ... right?
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:24:19Z"}, {"author": "Ketan Talaulikar", "text": "So, I don't understand the benefit of hierarchy
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:24:56Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "Right. And that probably goes to the service not to the realisation. Hence slices are composed, not NRPs, when crossing boundaries
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:25:04Z"}, {"author": "Lou Berger", "text": "somewhat related draft https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-varga-detnet-mobile-latency-analysis/00/
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:25:05Z"}, {"author": "Tarek Saad", "text": "The way composite slice was laid out seems to to implicitly elude that an an NRP is single domain construct - which is not correct IMO
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:25:22Z"}, {"author": "Ketan Talaulikar", "text": "@Adrian. Thanks. Just wanted to confirm my understanding.
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:25:39Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "You are entitled to your opinion, Tarek :-)
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:25:48Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "Well, what is a domain? If you mean crossing administrator boundaries, this seems very unlikely to me
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:26:26Z"}, {"author": "Tarek Saad", "text": "no offences meant of course - just an opinion
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:26:35Z"}, {"author": "Tarek Saad", "text": ":grinning:
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:26:48Z"}, {"author": "Ketan Talaulikar", "text": "carriers carrier is what brought clarity to me ... domain has different interpretation.
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:27:14Z"}, {"author": "Jie Dong", "text": "@Tarek it is like we firstly have VPN services in single domain, then we need to provide the mechanisms for inter-domain VPNs. There is no big difference in concept, but some work is needed there for slicing these scenarios
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:28:00Z"}, {"author": "Dhruv Dhody", "text": "https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9543.html#appendix-A.5 explains this well
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:28:25Z"}, {"author": "Jie Dong", "text": "@Dhruv Thanks for sharing the links, we will add reference to these sections in next revision
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:29:51Z"}, {"author": "Tarek Saad", "text": "Thanks @Jie - yes, I agree a service can span multiple domain (and maybe multiple carriers).. but still, I'm not sure how calling an interdomain tunnel a \"composite\" tunnel would help -- (note, tunnel was only given for demo purpose only)
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:33:29Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "For tunnels we use \"hierarchical\" and \"stitched\"
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:34:59Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "it seems less clear for a service. I think hierarchical is still clear, but \"stitched\" seems a bit wrong, hence \"composed\"
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:35:33Z"}, {"author": "Tarek Saad", "text": "@Adrian - voila - it is stitched \"tunnels\" - by analogy would necessitate stitched NRPs
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:35:44Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "can you stitch networks?
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:36:00Z"}, {"author": "Tarek Saad", "text": "I hope so - unless you're after black holes :)
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:36:26Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "I do agree that the analogy is correct, but the word seems wrong
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:36:43Z"}, {"author": "Alper Demir", "text": "which words?
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:39:20Z"}, {"author": "Jie Dong", "text": "We were looking for a term which can cover both multi-domain and hierarchical cases, it seems composite is generic to cover both, what about we add a definition in next version?
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:39:24Z"}, {"author": "Dhruv Dhody", "text": "Yes! Lets adopt!
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:39:38Z"}, {"author": "John Scudder", "text": "It takes a while for the mobile meetecho client to wake up, might be the reason for more engagement on poll 2 than poll 1 in a sequence of polls
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:41:28Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "@john It takes a fair amount of time for people in France at 5.45am to wake up, too
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:42:03Z"}, {"author": "Alper Demir", "text": "I am in Turkiye, Adrian.
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:42:28Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "Hw nice for you, Alper
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:42:54Z"}, {"author": "Alper Demir", "text": "great
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:43:27Z"}, {"author": "Alper Demir", "text": "thank you for asking
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:44:04Z"}, {"author": "Alper Demir", "text": "Adrian
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:44:46Z"}, {"author": "Loa Andersson", "text": "was not this addressed by the tewg back in Mesolithic time?
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:51:19Z"}, {"author": "Alper Demir", "text": "may be. no idea
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:53:02Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "Was what discussed in TEWG, Loa? Whether Alper is having a nice time in Turkey?
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:53:27Z"}, {"author": "Alper Demir", "text": "yes
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:54:11Z"}, {"author": "Alper Demir", "text": "great experience. thank you for asking.
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:55:03Z"}, {"author": "Loa Andersson", "text": "sorry I referred to the current presentation.
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:55:14Z"}, {"author": "Dhruv Dhody", "text": "Blast from the past - https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/tewg/about/
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:56:42Z"}, {"author": "Loa Andersson", "text": "though having a nice time in Turkey is a nicer discussion to have
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:56:55Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "First time I really lost my tempter at the IETF was in a shared ride back to the airport with the TEWG co-chair. Turned out he was a CLPS person and I was a COCS person
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:58:47Z"}, {"author": "Kireeti Kompella", "text": "You became an ascetic after losing your tempter?
", "time": "2024-03-19T04:59:41Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "Ascetic as in acid?
", "time": "2024-03-19T05:00:43Z"}, {"author": "Alper Demir", "text": ":grinning:
", "time": "2024-03-19T05:01:15Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "You have always been my tempter, Kireeti
", "time": "2024-03-19T05:01:15Z"}, {"author": "Lou Berger", "text": "thank you all, see you in Vancouver
", "time": "2024-03-19T05:02:17Z"}, {"author": "Alper Demir", "text": "Thanx everybody. I hope I did well.
", "time": "2024-03-19T05:02:18Z"}, {"author": "Alper Demir", "text": "please share comments: akdemir@atu.edu.tr
", "time": "2024-03-19T05:02:46Z"}]