Welcome all
", "time": "2024-11-06T09:30:20Z"}, {"author": "Martin Casanova", "text": "Hi all
", "time": "2024-11-06T09:31:20Z"}, {"author": "Jens Finkh\u00e4user", "text": "Hello
", "time": "2024-11-06T09:31:38Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "Proposed charter in GitHub https://github.com/SIDN/ietf-wg-rpp-charter/blob/main/rpp-charter.md
", "time": "2024-11-06T09:34:14Z"}, {"author": "St\u00e9phane Bortzmeyer", "text": "Nice EPP tutorial.
", "time": "2024-11-06T09:45:16Z"}, {"author": "Richard Wilhelm", "text": "+1
", "time": "2024-11-06T09:46:29Z"}, {"author": "St\u00e9phane Bortzmeyer", "text": "Do we plan a \"whois retirement party\"?
", "time": "2024-11-06T09:50:21Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "I'm surprised that hasn't already happened. WEIRDS finished in 2015.
", "time": "2024-11-06T09:52:19Z"}, {"author": "Jens Finkh\u00e4user", "text": "You can formalize that fast track process. In other spaces, you talk about requirements (a provisioning service) and so-called acceptable means of compliance (EPP for bow
", "time": "2024-11-06T09:56:11Z"}, {"author": "Jens Finkh\u00e4user", "text": "Sorry, ... for now. Plus a process to add more AMC
", "time": "2024-11-06T09:56:38Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "Is the audio good for remote people?
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:00:28Z"}, {"author": "Matthew Gillmore", "text": "yes
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:01:30Z"}, {"author": "Jim Reid", "text": "I'm up for that party Stephane! Do we get to spit on the grave of whois?
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:07:30Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "I have to imagine that when it was first rolled out, WHOIS was thought of as amazing.
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:10:21Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "How far we've come.
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:10:24Z"}, {"author": "Jim Reid", "text": "Few remember we needed whois to phone people to tell them their DNS or email was broken.
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:12:01Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "I remember lame delegation notification emails.
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:14:19Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "EPP itself isn't proprietary. Some of its extensions may be.
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:20:39Z"}, {"author": "Scott Hollenbeck", "text": "EPP is neither proprietary or difficult to extend...
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:20:44Z"}, {"author": "Orie Steele", "text": "being easy to extend is a dangerous power : )
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:21:34Z"}, {"author": "Esko Dijk", "text": "Looks like XML has become unreadable for the JSON generation? ;-)
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:21:47Z"}, {"author": "Orie Steele", "text": "lol
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:21:56Z"}, {"author": "Gavin Brown", "text": "I definitely think that's a problem. What kids are thought in underga
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:22:34Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "JSON is far less wordy than XML, but also completely unstructured. I'm not sure what I like better for structured applications.
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:22:39Z"}, {"author": "Gavin Brown", "text": "...in undergraduate CS classes has moved on
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:22:55Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "Get off my lawn.
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:22:56Z"}, {"author": "Ruth Trevor-Allen", "text": "That is kind of true though. These days I run a team of web developers using EPP to interact with the registry and most of them had never written XML before. It's a barrier to entry :(
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:23:40Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "@murray I'm not sure \"completely\" unstructured is fair. It is definitely looser than XML though.
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:23:43Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "@Darrel: Fair enough.
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:25:04Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": "I'll engage on that argument with you Murray, but later.
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:25:06Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "You'll have to catch me first.
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:25:16Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "@Darrel: When do you want deployment questions? After this or in a block later? Couldn't tell given the current agenda.
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:26:18Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "Orie and I think maybe in the charter discussion.
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:27:20Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "@Murray in the interest of time, lets take the questions after Martin's presentation
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:27:23Z"}, {"author": "St\u00e9phane Bortzmeyer", "text": "@Ruth But you typically don't write XML with printf. You use a library, which deals with the complexity (same for JSON).
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:27:23Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "Roger.
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:27:28Z"}, {"author": "Ruth Trevor-Allen", "text": "It's harder to debug too - if you're used to being able to just poke some JSON at an endpoint with curl and see what it does, EPP has a steep learning curve
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:27:37Z"}, {"author": "St\u00e9phane Bortzmeyer", "text": "@Ruth I tend to disagree. Reading jCard in the RDAP output obtained with curl is not my idea of a pastime.
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:28:28Z"}, {"author": "Ruth Trevor-Allen", "text": "Oh sure, not for a hobby. But half of development is 'why doesn't this work'? :)
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:29:13Z"}, {"author": "Orie Steele", "text": "time check
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:29:32Z"}, {"author": "Gavin Brown", "text": "XML schemas make it very easy to identify what's wrong with a particular XML instance. In my experience JSON Schema implementations are very lacking in many programming languages
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:30:00Z"}, {"author": "Orie Steele", "text": "thank you!
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:30:16Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "@Gavin JSON Schema implementations have improved over recent years. The primary challenge is which draft of JSON Schema they support. Decent ones are available in most languages
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:32:09Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "We haven't standardized one yet, right?
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:32:24Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "A JSON schema, that is;
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:32:32Z"}, {"author": "Gavin Brown", "text": "no
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:32:37Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "JSON Schema 2020-12 is an expired draft
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:33:01Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "Not it.
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:33:17Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "We are having conversations to fix that.
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:33:29Z"}, {"author": "Orie Steele", "text": "Happy to chat about this topic, if you can catch me :)
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:33:48Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "I am between you and the door.
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:34:31Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "You can also describe JSON using CDDL ;-)
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:34:44Z"}, {"author": "St\u00e9phane Bortzmeyer", "text": "Wondering if the developers who cannot do EPP will know how to use HTTP headers (instead of a JSON body).
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:34:50Z"}, {"author": "St\u00e9phane Bortzmeyer", "text": "@Darrel I will propose RPP with CBOR :-)
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:35:16Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "@Darrel: (laughs in ABNF)
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:35:18Z"}, {"author": "Peter van Dijk", "text": "HTTP headers are just like email headers anyway ;)
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:35:33Z"}, {"author": "Peter van Dijk", "text": "jokes aside, a JSON body seems to make more sense
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:36:08Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "@Peter HTTP header fields are \"structured\" these days. No more custom ABNF parsers
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:36:59Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "I don't think there's any doubt that JSON is the modern hotness, with or without a schema.
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:37:13Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Newton", "text": "Most frameworks and libraries make access to HTTP headers very easy.
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:37:42Z"}, {"author": "Ruth Trevor-Allen", "text": "@St\u00e9phane Bortzmeyer yep HTTP headers are totally natural to most web developers, I don't think that will be a problem
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:38:11Z"}, {"author": "Peter van Dijk", "text": "Darrel, oh right, especially in HTTP/2
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:40:41Z"}, {"author": "St\u00e9phane Bortzmeyer", "text": "Anyway, code is no longer written by developers but by AI and nobody asked the AI whether it prefers to work with XML or JSON :-)
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:40:48Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "Were structured header fields invented just so that developers wouldn't have to write ABNF anymore?
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:41:16Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "That is what the middlebox vendors tell devs.
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:41:48Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "I think we've wandered into the next section already.
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:42:58Z"}, {"author": "Esko Dijk", "text": "ChatGPT answered: \"JSON is usually the better choice when working with web APIs because it's lighter, easier to read, and more widely used in web-based applications. JSON's syntax is more compact, making it faster to parse and simpler to work with in many programming environments.\"
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:44:03Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "(laughs in SGML)
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:45:03Z"}, {"author": "Pawe\u0142 Kowalik", "text": "Maybe we should ask ChatGPT to run the BoF questuins and reach consensus :)
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:46:24Z"}, {"author": "St\u00e9phane Bortzmeyer", "text": "@Esko Thanks :-)
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:46:25Z"}, {"author": "Esko Dijk", "text": "(ChatGPT did mention in the remainder of the long answer that XML has a plus for validation)
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:46:31Z"}, {"author": "Orie Steele", "text": "https://github.com/SIDN/ietf-wg-rpp-charter/blob/main/rpp-charter.md
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:47:42Z"}, {"author": "Orie Steele", "text": "lets make sure to process the Q
", "time": "2024-11-06T10:55:52Z"}, {"author": "Gavin Brown", "text": "@Jim Gould was your comment about transition about how an individual server transitions from EPP to RPP or about how EPP might be retired as an IETF standard?
", "time": "2024-11-06T11:00:15Z"}, {"author": "Gavin Brown", "text": "what's \"legacy\" in EPP? I can only think of <dcp>
", "time": "2024-11-06T11:01:17Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "@gavin there was discussion about whether RPP needs to support commands like transfer, renew for contact objects.
", "time": "2024-11-06T11:02:00Z"}, {"author": "Gavin Brown", "text": "EPP contact transfers are definitely legacy, that's true
", "time": "2024-11-06T11:02:33Z"}, {"author": "Gavin Brown", "text": "but <renew> is for domains only.
", "time": "2024-11-06T11:03:07Z"}, {"author": "Paul Hoffman", "text": "The proposed charter does not actually say \"GitHub\", I think...
", "time": "2024-11-06T11:04:11Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "@gavin I'm new to this domain (pun intended) so take what I say with a grain of salt.
", "time": "2024-11-06T11:04:16Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "I think the point I'm pressing is one of future proofing the charter. Imagine two years from now the IESG has changed 100%, and someone looks at this charter and REGEXT and starts asking questions. It's probably better to include a sentence or two now that explains why the IETF is producing two \"same\" things.
", "time": "2024-11-06T11:06:51Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "The best part of internet standards is that there are so many to choose from.
", "time": "2024-11-06T11:08:05Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": "thanks murray - that helps
", "time": "2024-11-06T11:08:50Z"}, {"author": "Paul Hoffman", "text": "+1 to adding that text to the charter
", "time": "2024-11-06T11:09:55Z"}, {"author": "Jim Reid", "text": "Paul, the g-word is mentioned in the charter discussion slides. Which also mentions \"usage of tools beyond the datatracker\".
", "time": "2024-11-06T11:10:27Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "The flaw in my hypothetical is finding enough candidates to fill all IESG positions with new people, but that's a different problem.
", "time": "2024-11-06T11:11:07Z"}, {"author": "Paul Hoffman", "text": "Jim: yes, but we're talking about adopting the charter, not the BOF chair's wording. :-)
", "time": "2024-11-06T11:11:12Z"}, {"author": "James Galvin", "text": "Fair enough Paul.
", "time": "2024-11-06T11:11:56Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "It is worth clarifying that this effort is not simply using HTTP as a transport. It is layering provisioning semantics onto HTTP as an application protocol. The developer experience benefits that people have mentioned come from aligning with the HTTP application protocol.
", "time": "2024-11-06T11:12:34Z"}, {"author": "Jim Reid", "text": "Indeed. Though a BoF chair's words show up quite often in the last versions of a new WG charter. :-) Y
", "time": "2024-11-06T11:13:32Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "I don't think anyone is assailing the technology or motivation.
", "time": "2024-11-06T11:14:32Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": "Jim - I think he _intent_ of all of the tool text you are calling out is to steer the group away from asking to publish the _content_ they talk about as RFCs.
", "time": "2024-11-06T11:14:55Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": "so, step back from the details of implementation of the working group process tooling
", "time": "2024-11-06T11:15:17Z"}, {"author": "Murray Kucherawy", "text": "If I trivialized that, it wasn't my intent.
", "time": "2024-11-06T11:15:21Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "It is worth considering whether the modernizing of the tech stack may attract more participants as it is more accessible to some.
", "time": "2024-11-06T11:26:24Z"}, {"author": "Hans-J\u00f6rg Happel", "text": "+1 to what Pawel just said. I think new work bears the chance of attracting new crowds (but active outreach might be helpful, because many people are just shy of the IETF)
", "time": "2024-11-06T11:32:05Z"}]