Notetaker(s): Dave Plonka, Ryo Yanagida
82 participants signed-in to session
Speakers: Chairs
Chairs encourage use of DINRG Wiki to share content for group in a
timely manner: https://wiki.ietf.org/group/dinrg
Chairs mentioned upcoming DIN workshop at CoNext, 9 Dec 2024:
https://conferences.sigcomm.org/co-next/2024/#!/din
see agenda here for the following:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/121/materials/agenda-121-dinrg
Yogesh Deshpande: You are multiplying the reflectors, what if the
reflectors, attacked themselves?
Shane Kerr: It seems counter intuitive that lower bitrate had a
higher detection rate than higher bitrate.
Lixia Zhang: Given DINRG's focus, Daniel, how does this foster
collaboration?
Jens Finkhäuser: Commenting as an individual. DNS is hierarchical,
any registrar can take the name away from you. i.e. that is
centralised control at registrar level. You were talking about cloud
context, again, this is still somewhat centralised. Actually, this
might be a question. What's the actual difference to what we have
today?
Niall O'Reilly: What's the compelling case for using the DNS for
this? We have others (Nextcloud, etc.).
Dirk: on the question of adoption, we have to follow-up on the
mailing list. Marc, what do you need from the group specifically?
Rahul Gupta: We need to consider both software and hardware
consolidation. Consider "maleable software" (to counter this.)
Application themselves, like web apps have the power to centralise.
I think there should be more discussions around that.
Geoff Huston (on zulip chat): I think the case that there is more
here than economics driving centralisation is not really well made
(i.e. I'm still unconvinced!)
Jim Reid: What's the next step? Maybe we need more
multi-disciplinary approach to this sort of problems. There are
incentives for security considerations.
Dirk: We re-opend the queue to continue discusion
Arnaud Taddei: THere are add'l considerations, esp. the Digital
Opression or resiliency act of the EU. Would it be a good idea to
study this text (timely, given upcoming event re: this on 26 Jan
2025). When we say concentration (centralization?) how does it
overlap with this.
Colin Perkins: As an individual [i.e. not as the IRTF chair].
Discinction between economic aspects and centralised control etc
seems fundamental. I wonder how we could answer this. Back in
sanfrancisco, we had an economist who offered a draft on this.
Jens Finkhäuser: possible answer to Colin, comment is, while I
haven't read the draft, the shift from economics to power may be
related or transfer to the work in the Human Rights RG.
Rahul Gupta: We should bring in others (economists, regulators,
anthropologists) to give us their skills and input on the
decentralization issue.
Dirk: Please read the draft and think about whether to adopt this
Chairs summarized (in slides) what has been discussed on the mailing
list.
Chairs asked: What is the best, realistic role that DINRG can play?
Rahul: Do we have the resources and individuals to take this work
forward?
Geoff: That summary is one sided. It's the results, not the causes.
It doesn't provide the understanding of how we got here. This
situation isn't really unique, we see this in other industries.
Other industries have dealt with the centralization of economics,
and dealt with it as an unavoidable consequence, e.g., airline
industry. We accept this as inevitable in other areas. In the
Internet, this isn't about resource, but issue around rapid changes.
Only a small number of players in the industry kept up with the
rapid chages. This summary only talks about the effects.
Juan Caballero a.k.a. Bumblefudge: (an announcement) There will be a
side meeting, Thursday at 1pm, on the multiformats working group
proposal.
Speakers: Chairs