Whoever that is lying down, it is 4am here...
", "time": "2025-03-20T08:00:19Z"}, {"author": "Kathleen Moriarty", "text": "4AM here too!
", "time": "2025-03-20T08:01:56Z"}, {"author": "Sean Turner", "text": "thanks to all those who got up early / stayed up late. I know it can be tough.
", "time": "2025-03-20T08:04:33Z"}, {"author": "Jonathan Hoyland", "text": "So thinking of modified tags, could I set up a tag that only powers on once every hour, such that it wouldn't look like it was consistently following someone?
", "time": "2025-03-20T08:09:23Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "I mean once you can modify the tags, you just randomize the identifers
", "time": "2025-03-20T08:10:01Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "Or rather rotate very quickly
", "time": "2025-03-20T08:10:53Z"}, {"author": "Jonathan Hoyland", "text": "Sure, but that's a much harder modification than a timed switch.
", "time": "2025-03-20T08:11:00Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "Well, that seems fairly easy to counter
", "time": "2025-03-20T08:13:05Z"}, {"author": "Alexis Hancock", "text": "I have always approached this with the component of the added ease of deploying compliant trackers for unwanted use vs. modified or created trackers.
", "time": "2025-03-20T08:13:09Z"}, {"author": "Jonathan Hoyland", "text": "Does it help if the tag can't be disposed of? I'm not going to want to throw away my laptop?
", "time": "2025-03-20T08:15:55Z"}, {"author": "Dan Sexton", "text": "Is knowing which device(s) a tracker is paired to required to detect/find/disable a tracker? (per the high level requirements)
", "time": "2025-03-20T08:20:43Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "So here is what Apple currently provides: Serial number or device ID
\nLast four digits of the phone number or an obfuscated email address of the person who registered it. This can help you identify the owner, if you know them.\nSo it's not phrased in terms of paired devices
", "time": "2025-03-20T08:21:10Z"}, {"author": "Maggie Delano", "text": "got it thanks
", "time": "2025-03-20T08:24:11Z"}, {"author": "Alexis Hancock", "text": "Agreed
", "time": "2025-03-20T08:25:25Z"}, {"author": "Alexis Hancock", "text": "This was Eva's elaboration:
\nThat would be fine. I just want to make sure that if a tag is reporting to multiple accounts that the person who is being followed by the tag has a way of knowing how many and having the same data about all of the accounts.
If that helps
", "time": "2025-03-20T08:27:12Z"}, {"author": "Maggie Delano", "text": "thanks
", "time": "2025-03-20T08:29:12Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "Refreshing my memory, S 3.16.1 of the accessory protocol document covers this. It seems like if anything needs to change, it's a sentence that says \"if there are multiple owners, then this information shall be available for all of them\"
", "time": "2025-03-20T08:29:14Z"}, {"author": "Alexis Hancock", "text": "Noted ^
", "time": "2025-03-20T08:30:48Z"}, {"author": "Maggie Delano", "text": "Yes, would the protocol want to forbid different accounts pairing with a tag?
", "time": "2025-03-20T08:31:18Z"}, {"author": "Maggie Delano", "text": "(or do we want to allow family sharing/)
", "time": "2025-03-20T08:31:30Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "The tags do have rotating MAC addresses
", "time": "2025-03-20T08:35:40Z"}, {"author": "Dan Sexton", "text": "Maggie Delano said:
\n\n\nYes, would the protocol want to forbid different accounts pairing with a tag?
\n
Is the risk that a victim is being tracked by their own tag? (e.g., a tag is registered to both victim and attacker) - and would it be classed as an unwanted tracker at that point or would it be out of scope?
", "time": "2025-03-20T08:44:01Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "Thanks, Maggie, for pointing out that there is a slight additional risk, which is that if I steal the tag I can put it in separated mode, but with only temporary access I can look up the serial number without having it for 24 hrs
", "time": "2025-03-20T08:49:07Z"}, {"author": "Brent Ledvina", "text": "This is what's in the accessory protocol document right now: \"When in near-owner state, the accessory SHALL rotate its address every 15 minutes. This is a privacy consideration to deter tracking of the accessory by non-owners when it is in physical proximity to the owner.\"
", "time": "2025-03-20T09:08:47Z"}, {"author": "Brent Ledvina", "text": "\"When in a separated state, the accessory SHALL rotate its address every 24 hours. \"
", "time": "2025-03-20T09:09:08Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "Sorry, 15 minutes
", "time": "2025-03-20T09:10:22Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "Thanks!
", "time": "2025-03-20T09:10:24Z"}, {"author": "Maggie Delano", "text": "thanks Siddika!
", "time": "2025-03-20T09:10:32Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "So, here is the relevant portion of the finding document https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-dult-finding-00.html#section-4.2
", "time": "2025-03-20T09:10:37Z"}, {"author": "Erica Olsen", "text": "Thank you, Maggie and Siddika!
", "time": "2025-03-20T09:11:22Z"}, {"author": "Alexis Hancock", "text": "Thank you everyone
", "time": "2025-03-20T09:11:30Z"}, {"author": "Brent Ledvina", "text": "Thank you everyone!
", "time": "2025-03-20T09:11:37Z"}, {"author": "Kathleen Moriarty", "text": "Thank you!
", "time": "2025-03-20T09:11:38Z"}]