hey let's have the workshop here and now:-)
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:42:49Z"}, {"author": "Tommy Jensen", "text": "Harms != policy. Technical harms can be identified independent of regulatory action.
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:44:28Z"}, {"author": "Ted Hardie", "text": "@Stephen \"They're all horrible, you should re-examine your choices\". Are we sorted?
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:44:29Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "The URL shown for agnews does not seem to be working.
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:45:29Z"}, {"author": "Tommy Jensen", "text": "@Ted +1, along with social problems, technical solutions, and so forth
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:45:33Z"}, {"author": "Tommy Jensen", "text": "https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/agews/about/
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:45:41Z"}, {"author": "Tommy Jensen", "text": "(s/agnews/agews/
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:45:55Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "Ah!
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:46:20Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "Bad fingers!
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:46:28Z"}, {"author": "Jason Livingood", "text": "Suggestion: If you have detailed feedback, please email the program committee.
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:46:29Z"}, {"author": "Jason Livingood", "text": "", "time": "2025-07-23T09:46:46Z"}, {"author": "Tommy Jensen", "text": "@Jason to clarify, does that feedback need to be in the form of a formal paper, or can it be a (well-articulated) email write up knowing attendance is unlikely?
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:47:18Z"}, {"author": "Jason Livingood", "text": "Maybe just start off with an email to the PC like \"I read the call for papers and the workshop scope and wanted to say X, Y, Z\"
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:48:00Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "only over-18 people can follow online:-)
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:48:05Z"}, {"author": "Tommy Jensen", "text": "@Jason excellent, thank you.
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:48:17Z"}, {"author": "Tim Chown", "text": "Chatham House means comments can be repeated, but not attributed
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:48:33Z"}, {"author": "Tommy Jensen", "text": "@stephen with A/B testing of diff verification mechanisms, surely
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:48:47Z"}, {"author": "Jason Livingood", "text": "Queue is locked - we do not have time to go into much more detail due to time.
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:49:15Z"}, {"author": "Arnaud Taddei", "text": "Ok meetecho is super unstable for me and I arrived too late on the queue
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:50:40Z"}, {"author": "Phillip Hallam-Baker", "text": "When we did this at W3C 30 years ago leading to PICS, it attracted an individual the CIA told us was likely a spy
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:50:57Z"}, {"author": "Jim Reid", "text": "Well they would say that, wouldn't they? Says me channelling Mandy Rice-Davies
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:51:51Z"}, {"author": "Arnaud Taddei", "text": "But no problem, I just wanted to share that ITU-T SG17 recognized this workshop, that we think it is a good initiative and we will do our best to present something as we have a very successful Correspondence Group on Child Online Protection that we agreed to continue and produced a good gap analysis on the standardiation side, work is continuing including wiht ISO/IEC JTC 1 on age assurance
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:52:22Z"}, {"author": "Phillip Hallam-Baker", "text": "@jim, subsequent events make me pretty sure they were right
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:52:33Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Jean Francois, there is some of the motivation in the workshop description.
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:52:58Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Increasing interest is being shown in the implementation of regulation that restricts what content young people can access online. A recurring theme in these efforts is that it is no longer considered sufficient to rely on self-assertions of age. A number of jurisdictions have enacted - or are in the process of enacting \u2013 laws that take steps to provide stronger guarantees that children are not exposed to certain content.
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:53:06Z"}, {"author": "Tommy Jensen", "text": "Thanks for adding MRDA to my vocab, Jim
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:53:35Z"}, {"author": "Chris Box", "text": "750 wow
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:55:36Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "Yes, this motivation statement is why I actually disagree with Andrew's request: It is already been decided at the regulatory level that the current state of affairs causes harm. It is surely important for the workshop to provide the potential harms of the potential technical solutions, and those who already have an understanding of the harms of the status quo can do the weighing. Having the workshop trying to list the harms of the status quo is at best a waste of time and and worst a way to try to dilute the output of the workshop.
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:56:17Z"}, {"author": "Jason Livingood", "text": "As the liaison update is relatively fast, feel free to read the slides later in the mtg materials and contact Mirja, Suresh, Warren, Qin if you have detailed Qs about specific organizations like W3C, etc.
", "time": "2025-07-23T09:57:27Z"}, {"author": "Eliot Lear", "text": "What is important for that workshop is to come to at least some agreement as to what regulators need, and then talk about different approaches to meet those needs, and their attendant risks. We sometimes guess at what regulators need. I'd rather we didn't do that.
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:01:52Z"}, {"author": "Eliot Lear", "text": "Oh and of course, different regulators have different views of their needs.
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:02:20Z"}, {"author": "Eliot Lear", "text": "It's actually pretty impressive how long 4052 and 4053 have gone without an update. It's a lot of work on the part of Mirja and the IAB.
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:03:32Z"}, {"author": "Chris Box", "text": "Eliot - agree re age workshop. Sounds like some of the input to the event should be summaries of existing and proposed requirements by different regulators and jurisdictions.
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:05:12Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Campling", "text": "@Pete Fair point. What I as driving at, perhaps poorly worded, was that some of our previous technical decisions may have led to the current position where regulators / legislators have determined that harm is being caused and that action by them is required. There will of course be other causes too.
\nI agree with you that listing the harms being caused would not be productive in the workshop (perhaps it could be a useful topic for an input paper though).
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:05:13Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "Whether our technical decisions have caused harms seems to me irrelevant to the question of how to address the harms and the harms caused by any proposed solutions.
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:14:55Z"}, {"author": "Frode Kileng", "text": "Druhv did a great job representing IETF at his talk from the main stage at the IGF closing session.
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:16:14Z"}, {"author": "Colin Perkins", "text": "+1 Dhruv was fantastic in the closing
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:16:45Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "(I do find the construction that \"we caused the harms\" a bit off the mark, but that's a very different discussion.)
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:17:14Z"}, {"author": "Colin Perkins", "text": "This IAB networking session was also well received, I thought
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:17:36Z"}, {"author": "Tommy Jensen", "text": "+1 to Pete. That will quickly spiral into the he-said-she-said of \"tech moves too fast\", \"social problems do not have technical solutions\", and \"law enforcement don't act on existing data\". The provided agenda on the workshop page is excellent; hopefully the discussion sticks to it.
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:18:00Z"}, {"author": "Chris Box", "text": "Is WSIS+20 a suitable venue to consider the risk of a splinternet and how that should be addressed?
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:26:03Z"}, {"author": "Jim Reid", "text": "Possibly Chris. It would need very careful handling though => \"WSIS says splinternets are a good thing. Let's do it.\"
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:27:25Z"}, {"author": "Tara Tarakiyee", "text": "Does it make sense to have the \"technical community\" be it's own thing rather than recognized as multi stakeholder community that can be broken down to it's own components?
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:27:42Z"}, {"author": "Jim Fenton", "text": "Also +1 to Pete. I have seen a tendency from policy people in the privacy space to say that engineers don't care about privacy, which I see as a gross mischaracterization.
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:27:42Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Smullen", "text": "That is absolutely a true statement, Jim!
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:28:22Z"}, {"author": "Jason Livingood", "text": "@ali and @vittorio please keep any Qs brief - we have ~2.5 mins left in this block. We have have more time at the end after guest speaker (TBD).
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:28:57Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Campling", "text": "It has been great to see the IAB engaging more with other communities. The IGF sessions went particularly well.
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:29:15Z"}, {"author": "Ignacio Castro", "text": "Indeed, IETF (and technical community more generally) is clearly increasing its presence and visibility since Kyoto
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:30:15Z"}, {"author": "Colin Perkins", "text": "And I think its essential that this community provides its expertise in these policy-related forums, so the IAB and IETF engagement here is important
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:31:38Z"}, {"author": "avri doria", "text": "I agree, also very happy to see the increased activity frm IAB in IGF & WSIS
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:31:46Z"}, {"author": "Jim Reid", "text": "@Tara, it's not clear what you mean (at least to me). The tech community absolutely must be present and active in policy fora like WSIS. Leaving them to do their own thing would be unwise. The various tech components ( IETF, RIRs, ISOC, ICANN, etc) need to coordinate what they do at IGF, WSIS and so on.
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:32:18Z"}, {"author": "Jim Reid", "text": "+100 Colin & Avri
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:33:20Z"}, {"author": "Carolina Caeiro", "text": "i thought that point on the ops green wg group was great, it should be highlighted for the WSIS action lines that IETF is contributing on the environmental sustainability front. It is a major contribution that some folks in those policy communities might not otherwise grasp
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:34:14Z"}, {"author": "Ignacio Castro", "text": "agree, I would love to see efforts directed to bridging gaps between communities and going beyond explaining to others what this community is, how it works and why it matters --I recognise this is a necessary step
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:34:22Z"}, {"author": "Tara Tarakiyee", "text": "@Jim It sounds to me that the term technical community only serves to obfuscate underlying stakeholder dynamics considering that bodies like the ietf and icann are multi stakeholder themselves.
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:34:24Z"}, {"author": "avri doria", "text": "some of us believe in a notion of multistakeholder all the way down, and all the way up
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:35:32Z"}, {"author": "Jim Reid", "text": "Good point Tara. I'm sure that message is rammed home when IETF, ICANN, etc show up at the likes of WSIS
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:36:09Z"}, {"author": "Sarah Jennings", "text": "If anyone is looking for ways to contribute to the WSIS review, there is an informal consultation session happening next week - and registration closes today https://publicadministration.desa.un.org/wsis20/wsisinformalsession
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:37:11Z"}, {"author": "Chris Box", "text": "Thanks Sarah
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:37:30Z"}, {"author": "Jason Livingood", "text": "Detailed slides for this block at https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/123/materials/slides-123-iabopen-invited-talk-olympic-broadcasting-service-live-cloud-00
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:43:25Z"}, {"author": "Chris Box", "text": "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Reliable_Transport
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:54:16Z"}, {"author": "Jason Livingood", "text": "https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-sharabayko-srt-01
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:55:05Z"}, {"author": "Jason Livingood", "text": "100x 4K feeds over a satellite is $$$$
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:58:18Z"}, {"author": "Glenn Deen", "text": "The SRT folks have presented at MOPS in the past
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:58:41Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "how does SRT relate to MoQ?
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:58:56Z"}, {"author": "Glenn Deen", "text": "it's independent of MoQ
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:59:19Z"}, {"author": "Mike English", "text": "SRT cannot reach a browser directly
", "time": "2025-07-23T10:59:55Z"}, {"author": "Glenn Deen", "text": "SRT is widely used in production and media ditribution from venues, while MoQ is still in developement
", "time": "2025-07-23T11:00:02Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "well there's that
", "time": "2025-07-23T11:00:09Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "but does MoQ also target the applicartion (this kind of backhaul) that SRT is being used for here?
", "time": "2025-07-23T11:00:35Z"}, {"author": "Glenn Deen", "text": "SRT is also not to view distribution protocol or B2C as some call it, it's reallly B2B
", "time": "2025-07-23T11:00:50Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "okay
", "time": "2025-07-23T11:00:56Z"}, {"author": "Mike English", "text": "Brian: It could, yes
", "time": "2025-07-23T11:01:02Z"}, {"author": "Mike English", "text": "Might be a good question to take to the mic if there\u2019s time
", "time": "2025-07-23T11:01:22Z"}, {"author": "Mike English", "text": "I\u2019m not in the room
", "time": "2025-07-23T11:01:31Z"}, {"author": "Glenn Deen", "text": "it also has specific features to deal with high bit loss environments.
", "time": "2025-07-23T11:01:32Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "(just kind of shocking to see a UDP-based protocol with a fully open image in 2025, but I do live in a bubble, so... :) )
", "time": "2025-07-23T11:01:51Z"}]