[{"author": "Carsten Bormann", "text": "<p>Not our text, but the document was briefly a T2TRG draft:  RFC 9880,</p>\n<p>...Things [...], namely<br>\n   physical objects that are available for interaction over a network....</p>", "time": "2026-07-20T12:13:04.000Z"}, {"author": "Carsten Bormann", "text": "<p>This is missing text about degrees of Thingness...</p>", "time": "2026-07-20T12:13:22.000Z"}, {"author": "Rahul Gupta", "text": "<p>Entity-ness?</p>", "time": "2026-07-20T12:14:17.000Z"}, {"author": "Esko Dijk", "text": "<p>Fuzzy logic to the rescue?  Thing ... half-Thing ... No-thing</p>", "time": "2026-07-20T12:23:54.000Z"}, {"author": "Jari Arkko", "text": "<p>Carsten, does your definition include Things that are <em>not</em> available for network interaction but that can be observed by another Thing that can observe the first thing?</p>", "time": "2026-07-20T12:25:06.000Z"}, {"author": "Carsten Bormann", "text": "<p>Those things would have a low level of Thingness.  The sun is not much of a Thing in this sense, but the light sensors are.</p>", "time": "2026-07-20T12:29:11.000Z"}, {"author": "Jari Arkko", "text": "<p>Yes. But I was trying to say that there are applications that would be interested in the \"pure things\" alongside your connected things. So I would like to know about \"who knows about sun\" in discovery, for instance. Or who has camera eyes on (lat,lon). And so on.</p>", "time": "2026-07-20T12:47:58.000Z"}, {"author": "Carsten Bormann", "text": "<p>It might be fun to look at this through a NIPC lens... (Was Non-IP control). There we have a SCIM model of devices not directly reachable and a gateway to talk to those.  But this still is based on the remote/virtual thing making a bit of an effort to be a thing.</p>", "time": "2026-07-20T12:57:29.000Z"}, {"author": "Behcet Sarikaya", "text": "<p>complexity is a very difficult thing</p>", "time": "2026-07-20T13:24:12.000Z"}, {"author": "Behcet Sarikaya", "text": "<p>Well said</p>", "time": "2026-07-20T13:24:33.000Z"}, {"author": "Jari Arkko", "text": "<p>Another way to look at this would be think of sensors. You're not really trying to find a sensor, you are trying to find information about the environment, temperature in the room, sunspots in the sun, objects in front of the car, etc. Often we wire our systems so that they are looking for the specific networked thing, e.g., give me the radar in the car or the home temperature sensor. But it wouldn't have to be, you could also look for information about an area, and that information could come from multiple sources, maybe someone else has a sunspot sensor, other car has a radar too, etc.</p>", "time": "2026-07-20T13:25:05.000Z"}, {"author": "Behcet Sarikaya", "text": "<p>+1 to Jari, I think we should always have the constrained devices in mind and relate things to them</p>", "time": "2026-07-20T13:34:19.000Z"}, {"author": "Rahul Gupta", "text": "<p>Tobias has gone really dystopian now!</p>", "time": "2026-07-20T13:45:10.000Z"}, {"author": "Layal Jebran", "text": "<p>Yes like Bezos saying we need to use our water to help AI find us alternative resources... Nestle logic</p>", "time": "2026-07-20T13:46:59.000Z"}]