IETF 98 Chicago MBONED Agenda Tues, Mar 28, 2017 9-11:30AM Zurich B (Held jointly with PIM WG) Note takers: Toerless Ecker, Joel Jaeggli Jabber Log: https://www.ietf.org/jabber/logs/mboned/2017-03-28.html Audio log: https://ietf.org/audio/ietf98/ietf98-zurichb-20170328-0900.mp3 Video log: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaI5E-JWjiY 09:00 Status of WG items Chairs, 5 min draft-zhang-mboned-multicast-info-model - ready for last call ? draft-ietf-mboned-interdomain-peering-bcp - in IESG process - Tim Chown and Mikael Abrahamson are doc shepherds draft-zhang-mboned-multicast-info-model-00 - sandy to discuss draft-acg-mboned-multicast-models 09:10 draft-zhang-mboned-multicast-info-model-01 Zhang, 10 min - Sandy Zhang, ZTE presenting Slide 1: - Trying to create higher level abstraction than existing per-protocol models. Slide 2: What is the multicast model Slide 3: Multicast Information Model 01 update - model has been verified in ODL BIER project Slide 4: Multicast Information Model 01 update (example usage, picutre) Slide 5: open daylight Slide 6: BIER project in ODL: wiki.opendaylight.org/view/BIER:Main Slide 7: Multicast UML Class Diagram Slide 8: Multicast Data Model overview Slide 9: Multicast Data Model - Information Slide 10: Multicast Data Model - Overlay Slide 11: Multicast Data Model - Transport Slide 12: Multicast Data Moel - Underlay Slide 13: Next steps Jake Holland, Akamai: What about IGMP proxying, MD proxying ? Sandy: into transport section ?! yes, can be done. Greg: how many people have read the draft? how many folks paying attention to Yang work ? 25% Jake liked the pictures that helped him to understand relationships between protocols. ca. 6 people supporting adoption, none opposed Call for adoption will be taken to the list. toerless Q: any other examples of this type of more compound data models in IETG ? Lenny: as opposed to the single protocol? Stig Venaas: BESS is also working on service model for VPNs, not only for multicast Joel Jaeggli: service models is the area most similar to this. multiple pieces required that need to be tied together. Fair number of those. Success of that entire area is not guaranteed though, so we do not know if this would work very well. Once you have a bunch of primitives sticking them together into complex structure. Pioneering yes, but not alone! draft-ietf-mboned-mtrace-v2-17 Asaeda, 5 min Asaeda NICHT, co-author: Kerry Meyer Cisco Slide 1: Change since last version SLide 2/3: old vs. new formula calculating arrival time. Slide 4: Next step - WGLC (really) Chair(Lenny): revised multiple times. how many readers of last version ? A: 3 people in room. Stig: it has been multiple last calls, now read it in a lot of detail, very good shape now, really should get through last call now. AMT Hackathon Update Holland(AKAMAI)/Pardue(BBC), 15 min Lenny: explaining multicast hackathon doing AMT hacking lead by Jake Holland @AKAMAI, making multicast cool again https://github.com/GrumpyOldTroll/amt Slide 1: Planned Deployment Overview picture - both cisco & juniper having virtual router implementations - Akamai looking for ISP partners to participate in these experiment - Open source C implementation that a few years back as starting point, good starting point. - hit some compatibility issues with cisco implementation, introduced compatibility knob Slide 2: Lab setup - mainly working on porting on relay code into openwrt, result checked in. - running a cople of video streaming apps, including octoshape, also BBC player Slide 3: Dynamic Adaptive Streaming over Multicast - from BBC - ways to improve relaying HTTP semantics over multicast Slide 4: summary of hackathon: ported amtrelayd to OpenWRT, bugfixes, cleanup - testbed setup documented - expreiments running video - native multicast, amt-encapsulated Slide 5: acknowledgement - lucas pardue, BBC (multicast video), - codarren velvindron, orange (remote), installing AMT - prior work: mboned WG members, initial AMT project - bill atwood, concordia - previous work on VLC integration Donald Sharp: Whats difference between AMT and most kernels VIF tunnels, eg: auto-tunnel across kernel. A(Jake): yes, lots of other tunnel options. One of main benefits of AMT is that someone remote can join without need of coordination, eg: other side does not have to be configured for it. Easier to communicate with remote partners. lenny: What is the state of AMT gateway implementations ? Know work by UT, concordia, announced during last few years. A/Jake: Start with rtp and try that. Better way is to include gateway into applications. Akamai has done this multiple times, eg: Octoshape, also prior Akamai implementation. Work done by akamai more focussed on segmented delivery. Not been looking into RTP yet. Cisco/Juniper supporting relay implementations. Amazon EC2 has CSR1kv that should include Cisco AMT, as of eg: november last year. Spin up relay and try it. Cisco has gateway implementation in CSR1kv as well. Can also work on gateway implementation in open source, needs some work. Currently relays on PF, not ready for prime time. toerless: also done open source host based gateway implementation: https://github.com/cisco/SSMAMTtools bill atwood: has not touched the open source work in a couple of years. But worked on security in the meantime. because AMT is like all of IP unsecured packet, that was needed. Jake: Was looking into video level encryption. Some work to do on that. Concrened about AMT data packets. Original intent was for AMT to be closer to the edge. But now in Akamais case going through the core, there is a risk for data injection, no nonces in data packets, so attackers could just send packets (guessing just the five tuples). Will also have table at bit&bytes Lenny: how many folks working at hackathon, A: 3, 2 local, 1 remote. Lenny: final remarks: For MBoned investigating IETF to add secretary. Great opportunity, come see chairs. Last night there was a video bar bof on Video over the Interner, Greg can talk about it, multicast topics came up. Greg: No problem statement. Description of BOF caused a lot of interest. Dave Oran had broader perspective: IETF is not addressing codecs, network layer, etc. pp. What was presented was just one slice in it. Lot of discussion about scaleable multicast, multicast video and oversubscription/congestion. Jake Holland: There was strong support to address scaleable video problem, some folks see it as deep caching. Toerless: overall solution will very much depend on the amount of end-to-end delay the solution is willing to accept, eg: replay of video where any delay, 30 seconds is acceptable vs. live video. Mike Mcbride: Trying to understand scope, where theree high bandwidth requirements ? Greg: no mostly spinning wheels. Jake: There where 4 drafts in the BAR bof - invitation for them was sent to 98attendees mailing list. Mike Mcbride talking about VR applications and its immense bandwidth requirements. Toerless: alsos ee VR presentation LIin Han at Mondays ICCRG meeting. Joel: QUIC exists because similar problems exist with unicast. Solution space being explored, he'd be surprised if it wasn't overflowing into multicast side. Joel Jaeggli retiring as AD in wednesday, handing over to Warren Kumari. Warren Kumari introducing himself. Has not been involved in this much at all. - Welcome aboard. Donald Sharp: Multicast forwarding in the linux kernel sucks due to hash table. Lot of multicast testing in linux kernel: hash table based on high order byte of multicast group. Performance on linux would suck very much. Problem was fixed in 4.11 kernel. Lenny: please mention this also on mboned mailing list.