Narrative Minutes

Narrative Meeting Minutes for the April 13, 2006 IESG Teleconference

Scribe: Spencer Dawkins <>

1. Administrivia

1.1 Roll Call

We noted that David Kessens is now a new parent...

1.2 Bash the Agenda

Brian asked for confirmation of ISOC BoT nominee as a management item.

Sam asked for retreat logistics as a management item.

1.3 Approval of the Minutes

March 30 teleconference minutes approved with no discussion.

March 30 narrative minutes approved with no discussion.

1.4 Review of Action Items

No outstanding tasks from last teleconference. Brian said Jari has agreed to write text on criteria for choice between direct submission to an AD and independent submission to the RFC Editor

1.5 Review of Projects

Jon said there are only two orphaned projects (after the recent AD shuffle), and Brian has provided suggestions on this.

2. Protocol Actions
Reviews should focus on these questions: "Is this document a
reasonable basis on which to build the salient part of the Internet
infrastructure? If not, what changes would make it so?"

2.1 WG Submissions
2.1.1 New Item
o draft-ietf-ospf-mib-update-10.txt
OSPF Version 2 Management Information Base (Proposed Standard) - 1 of 3
Token: Bill Fenner

Ross stated a NO-OBJ position. Bill requested New-ID-Needed, based mostly on late MIB comments (not a DISCUSS, but Bill wants to resolve them).

o draft-ietf-avt-rfc2429-bis-08.txt
RTP Payload Format for the 1998 Version of ITU-T Rec. H.263 Video (H.263+)
(Proposed Standard) - 2 of 3
Note: PROTO shepherd Colin Perkins
Token: Cullen Jennings

Ross stated a NO-OBJ positions. Cullen agrees with most of the DISCUSSes. Cullen was planning to do RFC Editor note, but will now do Revised ID Needed for Gen-ART and other comments. IANA issue has been resolved with author.

Brian noted that these documents don't need to come back to the agenda unless the AD wants them to.

o draft-ietf-pkix-cert-utf8-03.txt
Update to DirectoryString Processing in the Internet X.509 Public Key
Infrastructure Certificate and Certificate Revocation List (CRL) Profile
(Proposed Standard) - 3 of 3
Token: Sam Hartman

Ross stated NO-OBJ. Ted asked about a note he'd sent about composing characters versus multiple items. Sam hadn't seen the note yet. Ted thinks his comment is a friendly amendment, will go with Sam's DISCUSS based on text on the IESG/PKIX lists and NO-OBJ. Russ added a position.

Magnus has sent a note and Russ had replied.

The RFC Editor Note was completed in a side conversation, and the document was approved, by the end of the call.

2.1.2 Returning Item
o draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-07.txt
BGP-MPLS IP VPN extension for IPv6 VPN (Proposed Standard) - 1 of 2
Token: Mark Townsley

Ross stated a YES position. This document was approved with no discussion.

o draft-ietf-l3vpn-rt-constrain-02.txt
Constrained VPN Route Distribution (Proposed Standard) - 2 of 2
Note: Remaining discuss before the new IESG was inaugerated was held by
Alex for implementation reports (which have since been submitted). Ross, as
Alex's successor, has entered a "Yes" position.
Token: Mark Townsley

This document was approved with no discussion, and Mark said the RFC Editor note is true and correct. Mark placed this document on the agenda to make sure new ADs had opportunity to review and confirm old AD DISCUSS positions (normally, this wouldn't have been required).

2.2 Individual Submissions
2.2.1 New Item
o Two-document ballot: - 1 of 1
- draft-santesson-tls-ume-05.txt
TLS User Mapping Extension (Proposed Standard)
Note: The IETF Last Call is scheduled to end on April 11th. The
author is working on an update to address the comments that have been
received. The updates will be in the area of internationalization.
- draft-santesson-tls-supp-01.txt
TLS Handshake Message for Supplemental Data (Proposed Standard)
Token: Russ Housley

Ross stated a NO-OBJ position. Russ thinks he understands everyone's positions (on four active DISCUSSes). Russ sent Brian text for this in near real-time, but Brian wasn't DISCUSSing based on Gen-ART review.

Cullen asked about making TLS-UME Informational, which would be OK, but there's history. Since IANA requires standards-track for handshake message, this led to a lot of discussion (that's why there's a sub-document now on UME). UME could become Informational (would change assigned number due to blocks, but that would be OK because the working group is waiting for a value to plug into #define).

Russ asked for sense of the IESG on the split. Sam (the implementer) could implement from this draft, would not be surprised to see updates to the document later. Very Microsoft-specific ("neither fish nor fowl", not quite Kerberos-specific, not quite an NSI).

The IESG discussed the issues raised. There were several approaches discussed
to ensuring that the general mechanism be available as the basis for further
work. The IESG agreed that discussion of this should not delay the assignment
of the needed code point, and Russ will work with the authors on the best
way forward.

Russ requested AD Followup, and Brian stated that he would drop his DISCUSS if the document were Informational.

2.2.2 Returning Item

3. Document Actions

3.1 WG Submissions
Reviews should focus on these questions: "Is this document a reasonable
contribution to the area of Internet engineering which it covers? If
not, what changes would make it so?"

3.1.1 New Item
3.1.2 Returning Item

3.2 Individual Submissions Via AD
Reviews should focus on these questions: "Is this document a reasonable
contribution to the area of Internet engineering which it covers? If
not, what changes would make it so?"

3.2.1 New Item
3.2.2 Returning Item
3.3 Individual Submissions Via RFC Editor
The IESG will use RFC 3932 responses: 1) The IESG has not
found any conflict between this document and IETF work; 2) The
IESG thinks that this work is related to IETF work done in WG
<X>, but this does not prevent publishing; 3) The IESG thinks
that publication is harmful to work in WG <X> and recommends
not publishing at this time; 4) The IESG thinks that this
document violates the IETF procedures for <X> and should
therefore not be published without IETF review and IESG
approval; 5) The IESG thinks that this document extends an
IETF protocol in a way that requires IETF review and should
therefore not be published without IETF review and IESG approval.

Other matters may be recorded in comments to be passed on
to the RFC Editor as community review of the document.

3.3.1 New Item
3.3.2 Returning Item
o draft-xdlee-idn-cdnadmin-06.txt
Registration and Administration Guideline for Chinese Domain Names
(Informational) - 1 of 1
Note: RFC Editor submission for RFC 3932 processing
Token: Mark Townsley

No objections to publishing this document as an Informational RFC. There needs to be an RFC Editor note.

Mark asked if this was category 1 or category 2. We think it's category 1 (since the IDN working group does not exist at this time).

Should Mark add his e-mail trail in the tracker? Brian thought a note summarizing was fine.

Bill pointed out that there are 5 responses and 3 IESG notes, so need to be careful not to inadvertantly map. Response is number 1, response would be 3 (maximizing distance from IETF)? Sam suggested that the response should be 2 (since this specification defines interactions with existing protocols), and we settled on response 2.

Brian asked that ADs add response suggestions in the ballot, just to save time during telechats.

4. Working Group Actions
4.1 WG Creation
4.1.1 Proposed for IETF Review
4.1.2 Proposed for Approval
o Secure Inter-Domain Routing (sidr) - 1 of 1

Brian asked if the ballot had the latest version of the charter - Ross said "if you got the text since yesterday" - it has just changed.

There were no objections to creating the working group (with no discussion).

4.2 WG Rechartering
4.2.1 Under evaluation for IETF Review
4.2.2 Proposed for Approval

5. IAB News We can use

IAB has May 29-30 retreat plans near Dulles, and is looking for a Rich Draves replacement as Executive Director..

IAB is trying to figure out what to say (if anything) about net neutrality (large subject).

Patrik Faltstrom and John Klensin have posted IDN Next Steps version 05, getting close to ready to publish, so will be putting this out to the community for their input. There was an IAB ad hoc committee set up about a year ago to think about internationalization issues. It provided the beginning of this document. It included some folks from the Unicode Consortium, including Mark Davis, who is not entirely happy with document contents. Mark has sent formal note (IAB has replied with formal note - the IAB believes there are issues here that need to be reviewed even if UNICODE consortium doesn't think they are issues at this time). Will probably see more discussion during call for community input.

6. Management Issue

6.1 Appointing an Expert for CaType Review (Cullen Jennings)

Cullen has gotten reviews of the current candidate from previous management. Looking for current AD feedback before making a final decision.

Cullen thinks picking a reasonable answer is more important than picking a right answer because no right answer exists. This is specification-required territory anyway, so the potential for insanity is limited...

6.2 Process for appointing experts for EAP method type code allocation review (Jari Arkko)

This was a similar discussion, but a lot of EAP expertise is required to do this work (don't break state machine, etc.) Would like to delegate expert selection to EAP chair (since various experts have done this work).

How to handle with EAP shuts down? Could point to the current chair of EAP, Bernard Aboba, and this would last as long as Bernard does. If the chair changes before EAP shutdown, could revisit the question then.

Brian pointed out that EAP has milestones from 2004, so "EAP shutting down" probably needs some exploring :-)

Brian pointed out that experts are covered by ISOC insurance - need to make sure delegated experts would be covered as well. Brian will discuss with ISOC insurance expert.

6.3 Expedited RFC Processing for draft-mcgrew-aes-gmac-esp-02.txt (Russ Housley)

RFC number needed to publish spec in another SDO, document has been approved. Joyce has already alerted RFC Editor staff (please make sure that IANA is alerted, if they need to be, and Russ says they need to be, since some numbers are being assigned).

Joyce mentioned that forwarding documents in the "best shape possible with IANA alerted" helps a lot with expedited processing.

No ADs objected to expedited handling.

6.4 IESG Statement on Normative and Informative References (Brian Carpenter)

This was on the IESG internal website, and Brian thought it should go out to the community. Any comments first? None noted, will be announced.

6.5 Confirmation of ISOC BoT nominee (Brian Carpenter)

IESG had no objection to the announced nominee with no discussion (after everyone knew who the nominee was). Sam recused himself from this topic.

6.6 Retreat logistics (Sam Hartman)

If you are coming to dinner on Thursday/Friday/Saturday night, Sam needs to know about you (already).

Dinner on Thursday will be 7:30. One stop away, or cab.

Dinner on Saturday will be substantially less formal than Thursday/Friday dinner.

Looks like Saturday end time will be closer to 4:00 (allowing 6:00 departures for travel), but Brian asked people not to cheat towards 3:00 because we are ending at 4:00.

7. Agenda Working Group News

Jari Arkko - 16ng has new charter proposal. Sticky point is about agrement on expectations and roles with other SDOs, especially WiMax Forum. Will be talking with the WiMax board soon.

Ross Callon - SIDR got chartered :-), and Kireeti's replacement in CCAMP is being selected

Brian Carpenter - cordial discussion with Newtrk chair, will send draft of PESCI next steps to IESG

Lisa Dusseault - looking for Calsify co-chair since Lisa is stepping down/up to IESG

Lars Eggert - not present

Bill Fenner - concerned about conflict of interest appearance on chair selection - does community need to be polled (given that we are all participating as individuals anyway)? Brian thought that having multiple ADs from multiple employers fixes this.

Ted Hardie - none

Sam Hartman - several WG chairs going missing/dormant (not bad chairs, some just getting overloaded). Will figure out how to use Bert/Dave process, where there is a requirement written, as soon as Sam find either Bert or Dave to discuss details :-) Wondering whether SEC is still the right place for SSH WG, since it's doing file systems now.

Russ Housley - none

Cullen Jennings - Jon set up a new mailing list for SRTP key exchange

David Kessens - not present

Jon Peterson - none

Dan Romascanu - not present

Mark Townsley - none

Magnus Westerlund - looking at a new co-chair for ROHC working group. Did have an April 1 RFC for DCCP (hope people can tell it was serious :-)