Minutes IAB Teleconference 2008-08-13

Note: This was a special meeting originally intended to test

the Marratech conferencing system. Due to a meeting conflict

with ISOC, the normal voice bridge was used instead. The topic

for discussion was internationalization of various IETF protocols.

1. Roll-call, agenda-bash, approval of minutes, administrivia

1.1. Agenda

1.2. Attendance

PRESENT

Loa Andersson

Stuart Cheshire

Olaf Kolkman (IAB Chair)

Gregory Lebovitz

Barry Leiba

Kurtis Lindqvist

Danny McPherson

Dave Oran

Lynn St. Amour (ISOC Liaison)

Dow Street (IAB Executive Director)

Dave Thaler

Lixia Zhang

APOLOGIES

Gonzalo Camarillo

Andy Malis

Lars Eggert (IESG Liaison)

Aaron Falk (IRTF Chair)

Sandy Ginoza (RFC Editor Liaison)

Russ Housley (IETF Chair)

2. Discussion of Internationalized Domain Names and IETF Protocols

Dave Thaler described how his attention had recently been drawn to

several standing issues with the use of internationalized domain

names, and more generally, the internationalization of various IETF

protocols. The IAB decided to look into these issues further,

partly due to recent ICANN efforts in allocating internationalized

domain names (and possibly TLDs). Dave had previously introduced

the topic via an email to the IAB, and during the call summarized

some of the key points:

– different parts of the IETF are using different encodings (e.g.,

UTF-8, punycode, etc.)

– there have been past IAB statements in this area, but the

guidance may not be entirely consistent or clear.

– what is implemented in real-world code does not always match the

RFCs, nor is it consistent across OSs or applications.

Dave went on to describe the properties of punycode and UTF-8, and

Olaf and Stuart explained the various encodings used in the

software and interfaces they were familiar with. There was a

discussion about known limitations when converting between

encodings, such as ASCII, UTF-8, UTF-16, and punycode. All of

these formats are used at one point or another in common

implementations (e.g., Windows, OS X, Internet Explorer, Safari,

DNS, etc.). Stuart noted how a browser or other application will

often attempt to guess the proper encoding if left unspecified in

the source file, leading to unpredictable behavior. Other problems

result from inconsistent byte-ordering conventions, and memory

allocation is complicated by the variable length encoding of

UTF-8, UTF-16, and punycode. In short, there are a number of open

issues with the current use of multiple encodings, where additional

guidance in this area might be helpful.

The group considered a scenario where an IETF WG is inventing a new

protocol and must decide which encoding to use. There have been

several RFCs on this, most recently RFC 4690. A common challenge

is how to maintain backward compatibility with old software while

moving to a new, clean standard. Olaf explained the way DNS has

fairly strict conventions of when 8-bit clean data is required, and

that many applications (including DNS itself) will not do an 8-bit

clean comparison but will perform ASCII case folding. Barry added

that this question of the on-wire interface does not even address

what the user sees in their browser or mail agent. This led to a

long discussion of the different interfaces within the overall

system: user / GUI presentation, interfaces between software

components on a single host, and communication on the wire.

It was agreed that Internationalization of Domain Names (IDN) is

only a part of the overall problem space, and that the multiple-

protocol aspect of the space warrants further IAB consideration.

Several independent test cases were identified, and Stuart, Dave,

Olaf, and Barry will coordinate further on a set of small-scale

encoding tests involving a mixture of dns, smtp, imap, and http.

Existing test pages constructed by the community will also be

leveraged in assessing the current state of interoperability.

Dave Thaler will summarize the current list of known issues in

order to determine next steps for the IAB.