IESG Narrative Minutes

Narrative Minutes of the IESG Teleconference on 2010-10-28. These are not an official record of the meeting.

Narrative scribes: Susan Hares and Linda Dunbar (The scribe was sometimes uncertain who was speaking.)

Corrections from:

1 Administrivia

  1. Roll Call 1134 EDT Amy:
  2. Bash the Agenda
  3. Approval of the Minutes of the past telechat
  4. Review of Action Items from last Telechat

2. Protocol Actions

2.1 WG Submissions

2.1.1 New Items

  1. Procedures for Dynamically Signaled Hierarchical Label Switched Paths (Proposed Standard)
    draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-hierarchy-bis-08
    Token: Stewart Bryant
    Note: Deborah Brungard (db3546@att.com) is the document shepherd.
    Discusses/comments (from ballot 3317):
    1. Jari Arkko: Comment [2010-10-28]:
      Thank you for doing this spec. It is very well written and technically solid. I would have otherwise voted Yes but that would have required a bit too much crosschecking and reading other RFCs than I had time for today.
    2. Alexey Melnikov: Discuss [2010-10-23]:
      3.1.2. Unnumbered Links with Action Identification: TLVs: Type (16 bits)
      Does this need to use an IANA registry?
      3.3.1. Unnumbered Component Link Identification:... has the following content:
      3.3.2. IPv4 Numbered Component Link Identification: "If the component link is identified with an IPv4 address, the IPv4 Numbered Component Link Identifier TLV is used. The TLV is formatted as described in Section 3.1.2. The Type field has the value 3..."
      ... this is using a type not listed in 3.1.2. What am I missing?
      (Same comment about 3.3.3)

    Telechat:

  2. IS-IS BFD Enabled TLV (Proposed Standard)
    draft-ietf-isis-bfd-tlv-02
    Token: Stewart Bryant
    Note: David Ward (dward@juiper.net) is the document shepherd.
    Discusses/comments (from ballot 3487):
    1. Jari Arkko: Comment [2010-10-28]:
      Agree with the discusses though, in particular with the graceful restart interaction issue.
    2. Lars Eggert: Discuss [2010-10-26]:
      Section 5., paragraph 1: "It is worth considering what if anything should be done when IS-IS is gracefully restarting [RFC5306]."
      DISCUSS: Since RFC5306 is already published, it is up to this document to specify how the proposed mechanism intersects with graceful-restart. The text in the remainder of this section seems to boil down to "we don't know", in which case I think you should actually say that this mechanism MUST NOT be used together with RFC5306 (until someone writes an ID that sorts this out in detail). It would probably also be good to discuss the pros and cons of when to use RFC5306 and when to use the proposed mechanism.
    3. Lars Eggert: Comment [2010-10-26]:
      Section 3., paragraph 1: "A simple solution to this problem is for an IS-IS router to advertise that it has BFD enabled on a given interface. It can do this through the inclusion of a TLV in its IIHs, and indeed that is our proposal."
      Since this isn't at the proposal stage anymore, please rephrase for RFC publication.
    4. Adrian Farrel: Comment [2010-10-28]:
      I believe [I-D.ietf-bfd-base] and [I-D.ietf-bfd-generic] (which are now RFCs) should be normative references for this work.
      The note in section 8:... should be removed since it is normal for non-null IANA sections to remain in place in published RFCs.
      Can the responsible AD please confirm with IANA that expert review for the codepoint allocation has happened.
    5. Alexey Melnikov: Comment [2010-10-23]:
      It looks like [I-D.ietf-bfd-base] is actually a Normative reference, as a reader is expected to understand it in order to implement this extension.
    6. Tim Polk: Discuss [2010-10-27]:
      (1) section 3.1 includes the following: "For each locally supported MTID/NLPID pair, an ISIS_TOPO_NLPID_STATE variable is assigned. If ISIS_TOPO_NLPID_BFD_REQUIRED is TRUE, this variable follows the BFD session state for that MTID/NLPID (UP == TRUE). Otherwise the variable is set to TRUE."
      Somehow, the last sentence feels wrong. I was expecting FALSE if ISIS_TOPO_NLPID_BFD_REQUIRED was not TRUE. Please double-check and let me know you verified or changed the value). I will clear regardless of the decision!
      (2) The authors have proposed text for the security considerations section in response to the secdir review back on 7/27. The text is not in the document or an RFC Editor Note, so I am afraid it has been lost...
    7. Tim Polk: Comment [2010-10-27]:
      I support Lars' discuss with respect to graceful restart.
      It would have been helpful if the goal of each state definition was explained in section 3.1.
      Three of the six state variables defined in 3.1 are never mention in sections 3.2, 3.3, or 4. Apparently, these variables were only needed to compute the three state variables: ISIS_BFD_REQUIRED; ISIS_NEIGHBOR_USEABLE; and ISIS_TOPO_USEABLE. Differentiating the interim values from the values that impact adjacency establishment/maintenance, topology advertisement, and transition might also enhance clarity.
      Please consider expanding IIH, MTID, and NLPID.
    8. Peter Saint-Andre: Comment [2010-10-26]:
      1. Please expand acronyms on first use ("IIH", "TLV", "MITD", "NLPID", "PDU", etc.) or add a section on Terminology that points to the appropriate specifications.
      2. Section 3.3. has the sentence: "If ISIS_TOPO_USEABLE is FALSE then the topology specific neighbor is NOT advertised." The capitalized term "NOT" is decidedly not an RFC2119 keyword, so please lowercase it. (The capitalized logical terms and system states "TRUE", "FALSE", "AND", "OR", "UP", and "DOWN" are slightly less confusing, although they could be put in scare quotes for improved readability.)
      3. Removing the IANA Considerations section on publication is not standard practice.
    9. Sean Turner: Comment [2010-10-27]:
      I support Tim and Lars discuss positions.

    Telechat:

  3. Unicast-Based Rapid Acquisition of Multicast RTP Sessions (Proposed Standard)
    draft-ietf-avt-rapid-acquisition-for-rtp-16
    Token: Robert Sparks
    Note: Keith Drage (keith.drage@alcatel-lucent.com) is the document shepherd
    IPR: Alcatel-Lucent's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-avt-rapid-acquisition-for-rtp-04
    IPR: HUAWEI TECHNOLOGIES CO.,LTD 's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-avt-rapid-acquisition-for-rtp-07
    Discusses/comments (from ballot 3526):
    1. Stewart Bryant: Comment [2010-10-27]:
      What does this sentence mean when it talks about "spare" and is this an equipment resource or a network resource we are considering?
      "If there is spare bandwidth, the retransmission server might burst the Reference Information faster than its natural rate."
    2. Lars Eggert: Discuss [2010-10-26]:
      Section 1., paragraph 11: "A reasonable effort has been made in this specification to design a solution that reliably works in both engineered and best-effort networks. However, a proper congestion control combined with the desired behavior of this solution is difficult to achieve. Rather, this solution has been designed based on an assumption that..."
      DISCUSS: This applicability statement is too weak. I really believe you need to restrict the applicability of this mechanism to managed/engineered networks. RTP streams already give us the huge headache of not being congestion controlled. But at least they don't consume unlimited amounts of bandwidth, because there is an upper bound on the number of bits per time interval they'll result in, since were talking realtime playback here. This extension makes it potentially MUCH worse... This is not a technology we can recommend for the general Internet.
      Section 5., paragraph 4: "Second, providing the rapid acquisition optimizations must not cause collateral damage..."
      DISCUSS: Unless you limit the applicability of this technology to engineered networks, where the only other traffic is other multicast sessions, you absolutely also need to minimize (ideally, eliminate) the impact on other (i.e., non-multicast) flows.
      Section 5., paragraph 5: "One challenge is the existence of multiple bandwidth bottlenecks between the receiver and the server(s) in the network providing the rapid acquisition service..."
      DISCUSS: This comes back to the first part of my DISCUSS: Unless we can specify such a mechanism for the general Internet - and I think we all agree that we can't - we cannot permit deployment of this extension there. In other words, we need to limit it to engineered walled-garden networks (such as intra-ISP IPTV rollouts) where such a mechanism can be cobbled together with OAM information.
      Section 6.4., paragraph 1: "This section provides informative guidelines about how the BRS can shape the transmission of the unicast burst and how congestion can be dealt within the RAMS process. When the RTP_Rx detects that the unicast burst is causing severe congestion, it can prefer to send a RAMS-T message immediately to stop the unicast burst."
      DISCUSS: Why is this section only informative? It describes techniques that I'd consider essential (or at least, very, very useful), such as requiring to monitor packet loss and react to it (and it uses RFC2119 language to do so...)
    3. Lars Eggert: Comment [2010-10-26]:
      Section 5., paragraph 6: "A second challenge is that for some uses (e.g., high-bitrate video) the unicast burst bitrate is high while the flow duration of the unicast burst is short..."
      You should investigate the work of the PCN working group.
      Section 6.4., paragraph 12: "When using RAMS in environments as described in (g), the BRS MUST transmit the burst packets at an initial bitrate higher than the nominal bitrate, but within the engineered or reserved bandwidth limit."
      Right. This is feasible in engineered networks.
      Section 6.4., paragraph 13: "When the BRS cannot determine a reliable bitrate value for the unicast burst (using a through g), it is desirable that the BRS chooses an appropriate initial bitrate not above the nominal bitrate and increases it gradually unless a congestion is detected."
      This is what we'd need to allow use on the general Internet. I note that you're halfway down the path of using TFRC here...
    4. Adrian Farrel: Comment [2010-10-28]:
      idnits reports... "The document has a disclaimer for pre-RFC5378 work..."
      In the Adbstract: "However, the proposed method..."
      Don't be so timid! This is about to become an RFC.
    5. Alexey Melnikov: Discuss [2010-10-23]:
      "For the purpose of gathering detailed information about RTP_Rx's rapid acquisition experience, [I-D.ietf-avt-multicast-acq-rtcp-xr] defines an RTCP Extended Report (XR) Block..."
      The reference looks Normative to me.
      7.3. RAMS Information: "Message Sequence Number (8 bits) : Mandatory field that denotes the sequence number of the RAMS-I message for the particular media sender SSRC..."
      When the MSN overflows, is the next one going to have the value 0 or 1?
    6. Alexey Melnikov: Comment [2010-10-23]:
      7.1.2. Private Extensions: "The structure that MUST be used for the private extensions is depicted in Figure 6. Here, the enterprise numbers are used from http://www.iana.org/assignments/enterprise-numbers. This will ensure the uniqueness of the private extensions..."
      Pedantic remark: I don't believe that Enterprise Numbers are limited to 32bits, although I don't think IANA will bypass the 32bit mark any time soon.
    7. Dan Romascanu: Comment [2010-10-28]:
      I support the issues raised by Lars in his DISCUSS.
    8. Peter Saint-Andre: Comment [2010-10-27]:
      1. I concur with Lars's DISCUSS: what will prevent people from using this technology for purposes other than rapid acquisition (e.g., as a way to bypass normal restrictions)?
      2. Section 1 states that "Acquisition Delay" is "the difference between the time an RTP receiver joins the multicast session and the time the RTP receiver acquires all the necessary Reference Information". Section 4 states that three different elements contribute to "overall acquisition delay": multicast switching delay, Reference Information latency, and buffering delays. Which is it? This seems to have an impact on the problem statement and solution space.

    Telechat:

  4. MVPN: Customer IPv6 Using PIM Control Plane and S-PMSI Join Messages (Proposed Standard)
    draft-ietf-l3vpn-mvpn-spmsi-joins-01
    Token: Stewart Bryant
    Note: Ben Niven-Jenkins (ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk) is the Document Shepherd.
    Discusses/comments (from ballot 3534):
    1. Lars Eggert: Discuss [2010-10-26]:
      INTRODUCTION, paragraph 6: "The specification for Multicast Virtual Private Networks (MVPN) contains an option that allows the use of PIM as the control protocol between provider edge routers..."
      DISCUSS: I have one quick clarification question regarding the applicability of this extension: Does this document update MVPN, i.e., is the intent here to specify a mandatory-to-implement extension to MVPN, or is this an optional extension? If the latter, how is the use negotiated?
    2. Russ Housley: Comment [2010-10-27]:
      Please consider the Gen-ART Review by James Polk on 27-Oct-2010.
    3. Alexey Melnikov: Comment [2010-10-24]:
      The document title is: "MVPN: Customer IPv6 Using PIM Control Plane and S-PMSI Join Messages" Is this missing "multicast flows" after IPv6?
    4. Peter Saint-Andre: Comment [2010-10-26]:
      Given that join messages are sent in UDP datagrams, a normative reference to RFC 768 seems appropriate.

    Telechat:

  5. With-defaults capability for NETCONF (Proposed Standard)
    draft-ietf-netconf-with-defaults-12
    Token: Dan Romascanu
    Note: Bert Wijnen is the PROTO Shepherd
    Discusses/comments (from ballot 3542):
    1. Adrian Farrel: Discuss [2010-10-28]:
      I am not clear about the "requirements" placed on servers and clients in this specification. Is the intention to say that "implementations conforming to this sepcification" should/must do stuff. Or, as the language of the I-D implies, "[new] implementations of Netconf" should/must do things?
      The former case really needs a little clarification in the text. The latter case implies that this I-D updates the Netconf spec.
    2. Russ Housley: Discuss [2010-10-27]:
      The Gen-ART Review by Richard Barnes on 25-Oct-2010 raises a concern with Section 4 that needs to be addressed.
    3. Russ Housley: Comment [2010-10-27]:
      The Gen-ART Review by Richard Barnes on 25-Oct-2010 raises several concerns and a question. Please consider them.
    4. Alexey Melnikov: Discuss [2010-10-23]:
      "A NETCONF server implementing the :with-defaults capability:
      * MUST indicate its basic mode behavior by including the 'basic-mode' parameter in the capability URI, as defined in Section 4.4.
      * MUST support the YANG module defined in Section 5.
      * SHOULD support the 'report-all' or 'report-all-tagged' defaults handling mode.
      * MAY support additional defaults handling modes.
      DISCUSS DISCUSS (this might result in no changes to the document): Is the goal here to allow servers to advertise what they support, but pushing complexity of dealing with multiple modes to clients? My personal experience with other protocols suggest that simpler operations for clients would result in more widespread deployment of extensions.
      So to translate this into something actionable: I am a bit concerned that various things are optional for compliant servers to support. I would feel more comfortable changing the SHOULD/MAY to MUSTs (at least for the SHOULD). Is this something that was discussed in the WG?
    5. Alexey Melnikov: Comment [2010-10-23]:
      I think XSD needs a Normative reference.
    6. Tim Polk: Comment [2010-10-28]:
      I could not understand the meaning of Section 2.3.1. I suggest revising it for symmetry with sections 2.1.1 and 2.2.1, which I thought were very clear. I have proposed text which is probably wrong (since I had trouble with the current text) but at least illustrates what I am suggesting...
    7. Peter Saint-Andre: Comment [2010-10-26]:
      1. I would like to echo Alexey's "discuss-discuss".
      2. It's not clear why the 'default' attribute qualified by the "urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:default:1.0" namespace is called "the 'wd:default' attribute"; does this assume that the attribute will always be prefixed with "wd:"? If so, why?
      3. The text mentions that a server will check if default="true", but the boolean datatype in XML Schema Part 2 has two lexical representations for logical TRUE (both "true" and "1" are valid). An implementation note might be appropriate, such as:
      "In accordance with Section 3.2.2.1 of XML Schema Part 2: Datatypes, the allowable lexical representations for the xs:boolean datatype are the strings "0" and "false" for the concept of false and the strings "1" and "true" for the concept of true; implementations MUST support both styles of lexical representation."
    8. Robert Sparks: Discuss [2010-10-27]:
      1) Building on Alexey's discuss - as written, this document requires any client that cares about how defaults are handled to implement all three (four?) modes. It would help to explicitly call that out in the text. Did the group consider making one of the modes mandatory to implement at the server (for instance, making the SHOULD in the third bullet of 4.1 a MUST)? If so, could the reasons for not doing so be better captured in the document?
      2) The phrasing of 2.1.2, 2.2.2, and 2.3.2 is ambiguous. During a conversation with Dan, I was convinced that the intent was to make them subordinate to the requirement at the top of section 2 that a server must pick one of the three basic modes, and that 2.1.2 should be read as
      "If the server supports the 'report-all' mode for handling default data, and the client has requested it by specifying 'report-all' when using <with-defaults>, then the server MUST behave as specified in section 3.1"
      and not as
      "The server MUST support the 'report-all' mode."
      If that's correct, please adjust the text to make it less likely that someone will misinterpret the requirement. (I thought 2.1.2 and the third bullet of 4.1 were in conflict before the conversation with Dan mentioned above).
      3) Section 4.3 as written is updating the base NETCONF spec. Was the intent is to add a requirement to the base protocol, affecting conformance of existing implementations, or only to promote adoption of this extension? If the former, the document needs an "Updates" header. If the latter, please remove or rephrase this section.
    9. Robert Sparks: Comment [2010-10-27]:
      There is a bug in 2.2.2 - it points to 3.1 instead of 3.2

    Telechat:

2.1.2 Returning Items

  1. (none)

2.2 Individual Submissions

2.2.1 New Items

  1. (none)

2.2.2 Returning Items

  1. (none)

3. Document Actions

3.1 WG Submissions

3.1.1 New Items

  1. (none)

3.1.2 Returning Items

  1. (none)

3.2 Individual Submissions Via AD

3.2.1 New Items

  1. The 'application/tei+xml' mediatype (Informational)
    draft-lundberg-app-tei-xml-06
    Token: Alexey Melnikov
    Note: I need to check if this was posted to ietf-types@iana.org for 2 weeks review.

    Discusses/comments (from ballot 3550):
    1. Adrian Farrel: Comment [2010-10-28]:
      I found the following text a little worryingly vague...
      "In general, a [TEI] file usually contains either of the strings... near the beginning, and usually after an XML declaration on the first line"
      It seems to me that this doesn't provide a rule for identifying a [TEI] file, so I wondered:
      - is there a more definitive way to identify such files?
      - is it necessary/useful to include this text?
    2. Russ Housley: Comment [2010-10-27]:
      In the discussion after the Gen-ART Review by Kathleen Moriarty, it was pointed out that Section 4 has a few acronyms that have not been spelled out earlier in the document.
    3. Peter Saint-Andre: Discuss [2010-10-27]:
      It's always good to register media types. Before I can ballot in favor of this registration, I'd like to discuss the following issues. (UPDATED to include item #5.)
      1. Because this document registers an XML media type, I suggest adding a normative reference to the fifth edition http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-xml-20081126/ of the XML specification (e.g., in the Introduction on the first use of the acronym "XML", which should be expanded).
      2. The description of TEI files in terms of string matching (i.e., the strings "<TEI" or "<teiCorpus" to be found "near the beginning" of the file) is quite strange, and at odds with the XML specification. I suggest changing this terminology to refer to the document entity http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-xml-20081126/#dt-docent or root element http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-xml-20081126/#dt-root (also, I think it is unnecessary to talk about the fact that the root element might be preceded by the XML declaration, since that point is handled by the XML specification).
      3. It is strange that the IRI spec (RFC 3987) is referenced on first use of the acronym IRI, but the URI specification is not referenced on first use of the acronym URI. I suggest adding such a reference. Also, is there a reason why the IRI spec is an informative reference and the URI spec is a normative reference?
      4. Some of the security considerations are covered already by RFC 3470 ("Guidelines for the Use of Extensible Markup Language (XML) within IETF Protocols"). I suggest reviewing that document and referencing it instead of substantially repeating its recommendations.
      5. The required review on the ietf-types mailing list began on October 20, so the two-week review period has not yet completed.
    4. Robert Sparks: Discuss [2010-10-27]:
      What are the stability requirements for the Published Specification in media type registrations? Is this particular specification published in any form other than the website? (Could those be referred to instead?)

    Telechat:

3.2.2 Returning Items

  1. Interactions between PMIPv6 and MIPv6: scenarios and related issues (Informational)
    draft-ietf-netlmm-mip-interactions-06
    Token: Jari Arkko
    Note: Document Shepherd is Vidya Narayanan (vidyan@qualcomm.com)
    Discusses/comments (from ballot 3130):
    1. Stewart Bryant: Discuss [2010-10-21]:
      I found the document very difficult to read for the reasons cited in point 1 of the GENART review. This issue needs to be addressed before publication.
    2. Ralph Droms: Comment [2010-10-18]:
      (blank)
    3. Russ Housley: Comment [2010-05-19]:
      Please consider the comments from the Gen-ART Review by Enrico Marocco on 12 May 2010.
    4. Tim Polk: Comment [2010-10-28]:
      There is one typo in the RFC Editor Note. The change introduced by the following text is in section 3.2, not section 2.
      Still in section 2, in the last bullet of list item 5:
      I suspect the RFC Editor would work it out from the context, but suggest making the fix just to be sure.
    5. Dan Romascanu: Comment [2010-10-28]:
      The OPS-DIR review by Jouni Korhonen raised a number of non-blocking issues, most of them of editorial nature, which should be considered if a new revision of the document is spun out...
      Few editorial comments: [15 items]
    6. Sean Turner: Comment [2010-05-20]:
      I support Tim's DISCUSS positions.
      Some nits:...

    Telechat:

3.3 Independent Submissions Via RFC Editor

3.3.1 New Items

  1. The 128-bit Blockcipher CLEFIA (Informational)
    draft-katagi-clefia-03
    Token: Tim Polk
    IPR: Sony Corporation's Statement about IPR related to draft-katagi-clefia-02
    Discusses/comments (from ballot 3585):
    1. Ralph Droms: Comment [2010-10-27]:
      (blank)

    Telechat:

  2. Recommendation for a Routing Architecture (Informational)
    draft-irtf-rrg-recommendation-14
    Token: Jari Arkko
    Note: Joel Halpern (jmh@joelhalpern.com) is the document shepherd.

    Telechat:

3.3.2 Returning Items

  1. (none)

3.3.3 For Action

  1. A Framework of Media-Independent Pre-Authentication (MPA) for Inter- domain Handover Optimization (Informational)
    draft-irtf-mobopts-mpa-framework-08
    Token: Russ Housley
    Note: Rajeev Koodli (rkoodli@cisco.com) is the document shepherd.

    Telechat:

1303 EDT break

1308 EDT back

4 Working Group Actions

4.1 WG Creation

4.1.1 Proposed for IETF Review

  1. URN Update (urnbis)
    Token: Alexey

    Telechat:

  2. FTP Extensions, 2nd edition (ftpext2)
    Token: Alexey

    Telechat:

4.1.2 Proposed for Approval

  1. (none)

4.2 WG Rechartering

4.2.1 Under evaluation for IETF Review

  1. (none)

4.2.2 Proposed for Approval

  1. Benchmarking Methodology (bmwg)
    Token: Ron

    Telechat:

5. IAB News We can use

  1. Hannes discussion

6. Management Issues

  1. Draft of IESG Statement related to MIME type registrations (Alexey Melnikov)

    Telechat:

  2. Alexey's presentation at W3C meeting next week (Alexey Melnikov)

    Telechat:

  3. Putting old I-Ds online to support RFCDiff (Russ Housley)

    Telechat:

  4. Relation of RFC 5996 to RFC 5282

    Telechat:

  5. moved ietf-types mailing list ot ietf.org (Alexey Melnikov)

  6. Comments regarding draft-ietf-l2vpn-oam-req-frmk (Stewart Bryant)

  7. Expert for RFC 3688 (Alexey Melnikov

7. Agenda Working Group News

1425 EDT Adjourned



Appendix: Snapshot of discusses/comments

(at 2010-10-28 07:28:12 PDT)

draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-hierarchy-bis

  1. Jari Arkko: Comment [2010-10-28]:
    Thank you for doing this spec. It is very well written and technically
    solid. I would have otherwise voted Yes but that would have required
    a bit too much crosschecking and reading other RFCs than I had time
    for today.
  2. Alexey Melnikov: Discuss [2010-10-23]:
        I am generally Ok with this document and I was about to ballot No Objection, but
    I found something I would like to quickly discuss:
    
    3.1.2. Unnumbered Links with Action Identification
    
         TLVs
    
             Zero, one, or more TLVs may be present. Each TLV is encoded as
             follows:
    
               Type (16 bits)
    
                 The identifier of the TLV. Two type values are defined in
                 this document:
    
                 1  IGP Instance Identifier TLV
                 2  Component Link Identifier TLV
    
    Does this need to use an IANA registry?
    
               Length (16 bits)
    
                 Indicates the total length of the TLV in octets. I.e.,
                 4 + the length of the value field in octets. A value field
                 whose length is not a multiple of four MUST be zero-padded
                 so that the TLV is four-octet aligned.
    
               Value
    
                 The data for the TLV padded as described above.
    
    3.3.1. Unnumbered Component Link Identification
    
       If the component link is to be unnumbered, the Unnumbered Component
       Link Identifier TLV is used. The TLV is formatted as described in
       Section 3.1.2. The Type field has the value 2, and the Value field
    
    So this seems to be pointing to the Type value quoted above, but ...
    
       has the following content:
    
    3.3.2. IPv4 Numbered Component Link Identification
    
       If the component link is identified with an IPv4 address, the IPv4
       Numbered Component Link Identifier TLV is used. The TLV is formatted
       as described in Section 3.1.2. The Type field has the value 3, and
    
    ... this is using a type not listed in 3.1.2.
    What am I missing?
    
    (Same comment about 3.3.3)
    
       the Value field has the following content:
     
        

draft-ietf-isis-bfd-tlv

  1. Jari Arkko: Comment [2010-10-28]:
    Agree with the discusses though, in particular with the graceful restart
    interaction issue.
  2. Lars Eggert: Discuss [2010-10-26]:
        Section 5., paragraph 1:
    >    It is worth considering what if anything should be done when IS-IS is
    >    gracefully restarting [RFC5306].
    
      DISCUSS: Since RFC5306 is already published, it is up to this document
      to specify how the proposed mechanism intersects with
      graceful-restart. The text in the remainder of this section seems to
      boil down to "we don't know", in which case I think you should
      actually say that this mechanism MUST NOT be used together with
      RFC5306 (until someone writes an ID that sorts this out in detail). It
      would probably also be good to discuss the pros and cons of when to
      use RFC5306 and when to use the proposed mechanism.
     
        
  3. Lars Eggert: Comment [2010-10-26]:
    Section 3., paragraph 1:
    >    A simple solution to this problem is for an IS-IS router to advertise
    >    that it has BFD enabled on a given interface.  It can do this through
    >    the inclusion of a TLV in its IIHs, and indeed that is our proposal.
    
      Since this isn't at the proposal stage anymore, please rephrase for
      RFC publication.
    
  4. Adrian Farrel: Comment [2010-10-28]:
    I believe [I-D.ietf-bfd-base] and [I-D.ietf-bfd-generic] (which are now RFCs)
    should be normative references for this work.
    
    The note in section 8:
       Note to RFC Editor: this section may be removed on
    publication as an
       RFC.
    should be removed since it is normal for non-null IANA
    sections to remain in place in published RFCs.
    
    Can the responsible AD please confirm with IANA that expert review for the
    codepoint allocation has happened.
  5. Alexey Melnikov: Comment [2010-10-23]:
    It looks like [I-D.ietf-bfd-base] is actually a Normative reference, as a reader
    is expected to understand it in order to implement this extension.
  6. Tim Polk: Discuss [2010-10-27]:
        (1) This is a minor discuss, but section 3.1 includes the following:
    
       For each locally supported MTID/NLPID pair, an ISIS_TOPO_NLPID_STATE
       variable is assigned.  If ISIS_TOPO_NLPID_BFD_REQUIRED is TRUE, this
       variable follows the BFD session state for that MTID/NLPID (UP ==
       TRUE).  Otherwise the variable is set to TRUE.
    
    Somehow, the last sentence feels wrong.  I was expecting FALSE if
    ISIS_TOPO_NLPID_BFD_REQUIRED was not TRUE.  Please double-check
    and let me know you verified or changed the value).  I will clear regardless of
    the decision!
    
    (2) The authors have proposed text for the security considerations section in
    response
    to the secdir review back on 7/27.  The text is not in the document or
    an RFC Editor Note,
    so I am afraid it has been lost.  The proposed text was:
    
    The TLV defined within this document describes an addition to the IS-IS
    Hello protocol. Inappropriate use of this TLV could prevent an IS-IS
    adjacency from forming or lead to failure to detect bidirectional
    forwarding failures - each of which is a form of denial of service.
    However, a party who can
    manipulate the contents of this TLV is already in a position to create
    such a denial of service by disrupting IS-IS routing in other ways. 
        
  7. Tim Polk: Comment [2010-10-27]:
    I support Lars' discuss with respect to graceful restart.
    
    It would have been helpful if the goal of each state definition was explained in
    section 3.1.  (It probably would
    have avoided my discuss!)
    
    Three of the six state variables defined in 3.1 are never mention in sections
    3.2, 3.3, or 4.  Apparently, these variables
    were only needed to compute the
    three state variables: ISIS_BFD_REQUIRED; ISIS_NEIGHBOR_USEABLE; and
    ISIS_TOPO_USEABLE.  Differentiating the interim values from the values that
    impact adjacency
    establishment/maintenance, topology advertisement, and
    transition might also enhance clarity.
    
    Please consider expanding IIH, MTID, and NLPID.
  8. Peter Saint-Andre: Comment [2010-10-26]:
    1. Please expand acronyms on first use ("IIH", "TLV", "MITD", "NLPID", "PDU",
    etc.) or add a section on Terminology that points to the appropriate
    specifications.
    
    2. Section 3.3. has the sentence: "If ISIS_TOPO_USEABLE is FALSE then the
    topology specific neighbor is NOT advertised." The capitalized term "NOT" is
    decidedly not an RFC2119 keyword, so please lowercase it. (The capitalized
    logical terms and system states "TRUE", "FALSE", "AND", "OR", "UP", and "DOWN"
    are slightly less confusing, although they could be put in scare quotes for
    improved readability.)
    
    3. Removing the IANA Considerations section on publication is not standard
    practice.
  9. Sean Turner: Comment [2010-10-27]:
    I support Tim and Lars discuss positions.

draft-ietf-avt-rapid-acquisition-for-rtp

  1. Stewart Bryant: Comment [2010-10-27]:
    A well written document.
    
    Just one comments:
    
    What does this sentence mean when it talks about "spare" and is this an
    equipment resource or a network resource we are considering?
     
    "If there is
    spare bandwidth, the retransmission server might burst the Reference Information
    faster than its natural rate."
  2. Lars Eggert: Discuss [2010-10-26]:
        (CC'ing Magnus Westerlund, whose tsv-dir review touched on the points I am
    raising as well.)
    
    Section 1., paragraph 11:
    >    A reasonable effort has been made in this specification to design a
    >    solution that reliably works in both engineered and best-effort
    >    networks.  However, a proper congestion control combined with the
    >    desired behavior of this solution is difficult to achieve.  Rather,
    >    this solution has been designed based on an assumption that the
    >    retransmission server and the RTP receivers have some knowledge about
    >    where the bottleneck between them is.  This assumption may not hold
    >    unless both the retransmission server and the RTP receiver are in the
    >    same edge network.  This solution is not designed to be used across
    >    any best-effort path of the Internet.  Thus, a careful consideration
    >    should be given when deploying this solution in best-effort networks.
    
      DISCUSS: This applicability statement is too weak. I really believe
      you need to restrict the applicability of this mechanism to
      managed/engineered networks. RTP streams already give us the huge
      headache of not being congestion controlled. But at least they don't
      consume unlimited amounts of bandwidth, because there is an upper
      bound on the number of bits per time interval they'll result in, since
      were talking realtime playback here. This extension makes it
      potentially MUCH worse - every time a receiver tunes in, this will
      result in a traffic burst of potentially much higher bandwidth than
      the base RTP stream. Folks will want "rapid" to be "as rapid as
      possible", meaning they'll blast at the maximum rate that they can.
      That burst isn't being congestion controlled or rate controlled at
      all, as far as I can see from the document. The only environments we
      can be sure that this won't cause harm to other traffic is
      environments where bandwidth has been provisioned so that these bursts
      can be absorbed. This is not a technology we can recommend for the
      general Internet.
    
    Section 5., paragraph 4:
    >    o  Second, providing the rapid acquisition optimizations must not
    >       cause collateral damage to either the multicast session being
    >       joined, or other multicast sessions sharing resources with the
    >       rapid acquisition operation.  In particular, the rapid acquisition
    >       operation must avoid interference with the multicast session that
    >       might be simultaneously being received by other hosts.  In
    >       addition, it must also avoid interference with other multicast
    >       sessions sharing the same network resources.  These properties are
    >       possible, but are usually difficult to achieve.
    
      DISCUSS: Unless you limit the applicability of this technology to
      engineered networks, where the only other traffic is other multicast
      sessions, you absolutely also need to minimize (ideally, eliminate)
      the impact on other (i.e., non-multicast) flows.
    
    Section 5., paragraph 5:
    >    One challenge is the existence of multiple bandwidth bottlenecks
    >    between the receiver and the server(s) in the network providing the
    >    rapid acquisition service.  In commercial IPTV deployments, for
    >    example, bottlenecks are often present in the aggregation network
    >    connecting the IPTV servers to the network edge, the access links
    >    (e.g., DSL, DOCSIS) and in the home network of the subscribers.  Some
    >    of these links might serve only a single subscriber, limiting
    >    congestion impact to the traffic of only that subscriber, but others
    >    can be shared links carrying multicast sessions of many subscribers.
    >    Also note that the state of these links can vary over time.  The
    >    receiver might have knowledge of a portion of this network, or might
    >    have partial knowledge of the entire network.  The methods employed
    >    by the devices to acquire this network state information is out of
    >    scope for this document.  The receiver should be able to signal the
    >    server with the bandwidth that it believes it can handle.  The server
    >    also needs to be able to rate limit the flow in order to stay within
    >    the performance envelope that it knows about.  Both the server and
    >    receiver need to be able to inform the other of changes in the
    >    requested and delivered rates.  However, the protocol must be robust
    >    in the presence of packet loss, so this signaling must include the
    >    appropriate default behaviors.
    
      DISCUSS: This comes back to the first part of my DISCUSS: Unless we
      can specify such a mechanism for the general Internet - and I think we
      all agree that we can't - we cannot permit deployment of this
      extension there. In other words, we need to limit it to engineered
      walled-garden networks (such as intra-ISP IPTV rollouts) where such a
      mechanism can be cobbled together with OAM information.
    
    Section 6.4., paragraph 1:
    
    >    This section provides informative guidelines about how the BRS can
    >    shape the transmission of the unicast burst and how congestion can be
    >    dealt within the RAMS process.  When the RTP_Rx detects that the
    >    unicast burst is causing severe congestion, it can prefer to send a
    >    RAMS-T message immediately to stop the unicast burst.
    
      DISCUSS: Why is this section only informative? It describes techniques
      that I'd consider essential (or at least, very, very useful), such as
      requiring to monitor packet loss and react to it (and it uses RFC2119
      language to do so...) 
        
  3. Lars Eggert: Comment [2010-10-26]:
    Section 5., paragraph 6:
    >    A second challenge is that for some uses (e.g., high-bitrate video)
    >    the unicast burst bitrate is high while the flow duration of the
    >    unicast burst is short.  This is because the purpose of the unicast
    >    burst is to allow the RTP receiver to join the multicast quickly and
    >    thereby limit the overall resources consumed by the burst.  Such
    >    high-bitrate, short-duration flows are not amenable to conventional
    >    admission control techniques.
    
      You should investigate the work of the PCN working group.
    
    Section 6.4., paragraph 12:
    >    o  When using RAMS in environments as described in (g), the BRS MUST
    >       transmit the burst packets at an initial bitrate higher than the
    >       nominal bitrate, but within the engineered or reserved bandwidth
    >       limit.
    
      Right. This is feasible in engineered networks.
    
    Section 6.4., paragraph 13:
    >    o  When the BRS cannot determine a reliable bitrate value for the
    >       unicast burst (using a through g), it is desirable that the BRS
    >       chooses an appropriate initial bitrate not above the nominal
    >       bitrate and increases it gradually unless a congestion is
    >       detected.
    
      This is what we'd need to allow use on the general Internet. I note
      that you're halfway down the path of using TFRC here...
    
  4. Adrian Farrel: Comment [2010-10-28]:
    idnits reports...
      -- The document has a disclaimer for pre-RFC5378 work, but was first
         submitted on or after 10 November 2008.  Does it really need the
         disclaimer?
    
    In the Adbstract:
        However, the proposed method...
    Don't be so timid! This is about to become an RFC.
    
  5. Alexey Melnikov: Discuss [2010-10-23]:
        This is a fine document, but I have a small list of issues I would like to
    discuss before recommending approval of this document:
    
       For the purpose of gathering detailed information about RTP_Rx's
       rapid acquisition experience, [I-D.ietf-avt-multicast-acq-rtcp-xr]
       defines an RTCP Extended Report (XR) Block.  This report is designed
       to be payload-independent, thus, it can be used by any multicast
       application that supports rapid acquisition.  Support for this XR
       report is, however, OPTIONAL.
    
    The reference looks Normative to me.
    
    7.3.  RAMS Information
    
       o  Message Sequence Number (8 bits) :  Mandatory field that denotes
          the sequence number of the RAMS-I message for the particular media
          sender SSRC specified in the message header.  The MSN value SHALL
          be set to zero only when a new RAMS request is received.  During
          rapid acquisition, the same RAMS-I message MAY be repeated for
          redundancy purposes without incrementing the MSN value.  If an
          updated RAMS-I message will be sent (either with a new information
          or an updated information), the MSN value SHALL be incremented by
          one.  In the MSN field, the regular wrapping rules apply.
    
    When the MSN overflows, is the next one going to have the value 0 or 1?
     
        
  6. Alexey Melnikov: Comment [2010-10-23]:
    7.1.2.  Private Extensions
    
       The structure that MUST be used for the private extensions is
       depicted in Figure 6.  Here, the enterprise numbers are used from
       http://www.iana.org/assignments/enterprise-numbers.  This will ensure
       the uniqueness of the private extensions and avoid any collision.
    
          0                   1                   2                   3
          0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
         +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
         |      Type     |   Reserved    |            Length             |
         +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
         |                       Enterprise Number                       |
         +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
         :                             Value                             :
         +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    
    Pedantic remark: I don't believe that Enterprise Numbers are limited to 32bits,
    although I don't think IANA will bypass the 32bit mark any time soon.
    
  7. Dan Romascanu: Comment [2010-10-28]:
    I support the issues raised by Lars in his DISCUSS. 
  8. Peter Saint-Andre: Comment [2010-10-27]:
    1. I concur with Lars's DISCUSS: what will prevent people from using this
    technology for purposes other than rapid acquisition (e.g., as a way to bypass
    normal restrictions)?
     
    2. Section 1 states that "Acquisition Delay" is "the
    difference between the time an RTP receiver joins the multicast session and the
    time the RTP receiver acquires all the necessary Reference Information". Section
    4 states that three different elements contribute to "overall acquisition
    delay": multicast switching delay, Reference Information latency, and buffering
    delays. Which is it? This seems to have an impact on the problem statement and
    solution space.

draft-ietf-l3vpn-mvpn-spmsi-joins

  1. Lars Eggert: Discuss [2010-10-26]:
        INTRODUCTION, paragraph 6:
    >    The specification for Multicast Virtual Private Networks (MVPN)
    >    contains an option that allows the use of PIM as the control protocol
    >    between provider edge routers.  It also contains an option that
    >    allows UDP-based messages (known as "S-PMSI Join" messages) to be
    >    used to bind particular customer multicast flows to particular
    >    tunnels through a service provider's network.  This document extends
    >    the MVPN specification so that these options can be used when the
    >    customer multicast flows are IPv6 flows.
    
      DISCUSS: I have one quick clarification question regarding the
      applicability of this extension: Does this document update MVPN, i.e.,
      is the intent here to specify a mandatory-to-implement extension to
      MVPN, or is this an optional extension? If the latter, how is the use
      negotiated?
     
        
  2. Russ Housley: Comment [2010-10-27]:
      Please consider the Gen-ART Review by James Polk on 27-Oct-2010.
    
  3. Alexey Melnikov: Comment [2010-10-24]:
    The document title is:
    
       MVPN: Customer IPv6 Using PIM Control Plane and S-PMSI Join Messages
    
    Is this missing "multicast flows" after IPv6?
  4. Peter Saint-Andre: Comment [2010-10-26]:
    Given that join messages are sent in UDP datagrams, a normative reference to RFC
    768 seems appropriate.

draft-ietf-netconf-with-defaults

  1. Adrian Farrel: Discuss [2010-10-28]:
        In a Discuss related to Alexey's, I am not clear about the "requirements" placed
    on servers and clients in this specification. Is the intention to say that
    "implementations conforming to this sepcification" should/must do stuff. Or, as
    the language of the I-D implies, "[new] implementations of Netconf" should/must
    do things?
    
    The former case really needs a little clarification in the text.
    The latter case implies that this I-D updates the Netconf spec.
    
    For example:
    
    4.3.  Conformance
    
       Every NETCONF server SHOULD implement this capability.
    
    which seems to conflict in tone from...
    
    4.1...
    
       A NETCONF server implementing the :with-defaults capability:
    
       o  MUST indicate its basic mode behavior by including the 'basic-
          mode' parameter in the capability URI, as defined in Section 4.4.
       o  MUST support the YANG module defined in Section 5.
       o  SHOULD support the 'report-all' or 'report-all-tagged' defaults
          handling mode.
       o  MAY support additional defaults handling modes.
    
    I don't think this is a big deal, but you need to work out exactly what you are
    requiring, and then make a few tweaks accordingly. 
        
  2. Russ Housley: Discuss [2010-10-27]:
        
      The Gen-ART Review by Richard Barnes on 25-Oct-2010 raises a concern
      with Section 4 that needs to be addressed.  Richard said:
    
      I'm confused by the existence of Section 4 in light of the fact that
      Sections 2.1.2, 2.2.2, and 2.3.2 say that a server MUST support a
      <with-defaults> value for each of the basic modes.  If there are
      cases where a server doesn't support a given mode, what does it mean
      for it to "support the <with-defaults> parameter" with a given value?  
        
  3. Russ Housley: Comment [2010-10-27]:
      The Gen-ART Review by Richard Barnes on 25-Oct-2010 raises several
      concerns and a question.  Please consider them.
  4. Alexey Melnikov: Discuss [2010-10-23]:
        While I was initially skeptical about usability of this extension, I think the
    document is making a compelling argument for having this extension.
    
    However, there is one question I would like to discuss:
    
       A NETCONF server implementing the :with-defaults capability:
    
       o  MUST indicate its basic mode behavior by including the 'basic-
          mode' parameter in the capability URI, as defined in Section 4.4.
       o  MUST support the YANG module defined in Section 5.
       o  SHOULD support the 'report-all' or 'report-all-tagged' defaults
          handling mode.
       o  MAY support additional defaults handling modes.
    
    DISCUSS DISCUSS (this might result in no changes to the document):
    Is the goal
    here to allow servers to advertise what they support, but pushing complexity of
    dealing with multiple modes to clients? My personal experience with other
    protocols suggest that simpler operations for clients would result in more
    widespread deployment of extensions.
    
    So to translate this into something actionable: I am a bit concerned that
    various things are optional for compliant servers to support. I would feel more
    comfortable changing the SHOULD/MAY to MUSTs (at least for the SHOULD).
    Is this
    something that was discussed in the WG? 
        
  5. Alexey Melnikov: Comment [2010-10-23]:
    I think XSD needs a Normative reference.
    
  6. Tim Polk: Comment [2010-10-28]:
    I could not understand the meaning of Section 2.3.1.  I suggest revising it for
    symmetry with sections 2.1.1 and 2.2.1, which I thought were very clear.  I have
    proposed text which is probably wrong (since I had trouble with the current
    text) but at least illustrates what I am suggesting...
    
    OLD
       If a client sets a data node to its schema default value, it MUST
       always be reported.  If the server sets a data node to its schema
       default value, it MUST NOT be reported.  Non-configuration data nodes
       containing the schema default value MUST be reported.
    
    NEW
       When data is retrieved from a server using the 'explicit' basic mode, and
       the <with-defaults> parameter is not present, data nodes MUST be
       reported if explicitly set by the client, even if they contain the schema
       default value.  Non-configuration
       data nodes containing the schema default value MUST NOT be reported.
  7. Peter Saint-Andre: Comment [2010-10-26]:
    1. I would like to echo Alexey's "discuss-discuss".
    
    2. It's not clear why the 'default' attribute qualified by the
    "urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:default:1.0" namespace is called "the
    'wd:default' attribute"; does this assume that the attribute will always be
    prefixed with "wd:"? If so, why?
    
    3. The text mentions that a server will check if default="true", but the boolean
    datatype in XML Schema Part 2 has two lexical representations for logical TRUE
    (both "true" and "1" are valid). An implementation note might be appropriate,
    such as:
    
       In accordance with Section 3.2.2.1 of XML Schema Part 2: Datatypes, 
       the allowable lexical representations for the xs:boolean datatype are 
       the strings "0" and "false" for the concept of false and the strings "1" and 
       "true" for the concept of true; implementations MUST support both styles 
       of lexical representation.
    
  8. Robert Sparks: Discuss [2010-10-27]:
        1) Building on Alexey's discuss - as written, this document requires any
    client that cares about how defaults are handled to implement all three
    (four?) modes. It would help to explicitly call that out in the text.  Did the 
    group consider making one of the modes mandatory to implement at the 
    server (for instance, making the SHOULD in the third bullet of 4.1 a MUST)?
    If so, could the reasons for not doing so be better captured in the document? 
    
    2) The phrasing of 2.1.2, 2.2.2, and 2.3.2 is ambiguous. During a conversation
    with Dan, I was convinced that the intent was to make them subordinate to
    the requirement at the top of section 2 that a server must pick one of the
    three basic modes, and that 2.1.2 should be read as
    
    "If the server supports the 'report-all' mode for handling default data,
    and the client has requested it by specifying 'report-all' when using
    <with-defaults>, then the server MUST behave as specified in section 3.1"
    
    and not as
    
    "The server MUST support the 'report-all' mode.
    
    If that's correct, please adjust the text to make it less likely that
    someone will misinterpret the requirement. (I thought 2.1.2 and the
    third bullet of 4.1 were in conflict before the conversation with
    Dan mentioned above).
    
    3) Section 4.3 as written is updating the base NETCONF spec. Was the intent is
    to add a requirement to the base protocol, affecting conformance of existing
    implementations, or only to promote adoption of this extension? If the former,
    the document needs an "Updates" header. If the latter, please remove or rephrase
    this section. 
        
  9. Robert Sparks: Comment [2010-10-27]:
    There is a bug in 2.2.2 - it points to 3.1 instead of 3.2
    

draft-lundberg-app-tei-xml

  1. Adrian Farrel: Comment [2010-10-28]:
    I found the following text a little worryingly vague...
    
       In general, a [TEI] file usually contains either of the strings
    
          <TEI
    
          <teiCorpus
    
       near the beginning, and usually after an XML declaration on the first
       line
    
    It seems to me that this doesn't provide a rule for identifying a [TEI] file, so
    I wondered:
    - is there a more definitive way to identify such files?
    - is it
    necessary/useful to include this text?
  2. Russ Housley: Comment [2010-10-27]:
      In the discussion after the Gen-ART Review by Kathleen Moriarty,
      it was pointed out that Section 4 has a few acronyms that have not
      been spelled out earlier in the document.
  3. Peter Saint-Andre: Discuss [2010-10-27]:
        It's always good to register media types. Before I can ballot in favor of this
    registration, I'd like to discuss the following issues. (UPDATED to include item
    #5.)
    
    1. Because this document registers an XML media type, I suggest adding a
    normative reference to the fifth edition http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-
    xml-20081126/ of the XML specification (e.g., in the Introduction on the first
    use of the acronym "XML", which should be expanded).
    
    2. The description of TEI files in terms of string matching (i.e., the strings
    "&lt;TEI" or "&lt;teiCorpus" to be found "near the beginning" of the file) is
    quite strange, and at odds with the XML specification. I suggest changing this
    terminology to refer to the document entity http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-
    xml-20081126/#dt-docent or root element http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-
    xml-20081126/#dt-root (also, I think it is unnecessary to talk about the fact
    that the root element might be preceded by the XML declaration, since that point
    is handled by the XML specification).
    
    3. It is strange that the IRI spec (RFC 3987) is referenced on first use of the
    acronym IRI, but the URI specification is not referenced on first use of the
    acronym URI. I suggest adding such a reference. Also, is there a reason why the
    IRI spec is an informative reference and the URI spec is a normative reference?
    
    4. Some of the security considerations are covered already by RFC 3470
    ("Guidelines for the Use of Extensible Markup Language (XML) within IETF
    Protocols"). I suggest reviewing that document and referencing it instead of
    substantially repeating its recommendations.
    
    5. The required review on the ietf-types mailing list began on October 20, so
    the two-week review period has not yet completed. 
        
  4. Robert Sparks: Discuss [2010-10-27]:
        This is a discuss point for a conversation on the telechat - no action is
    requested from the document editors at this time.
    
    What are the stability requirements for the Published Specification in media
    type registrations?
    
    Is this particular specification published in any form other than the website?
    (Could those be referred to instead?) 
        

draft-ietf-netlmm-mip-interactions

  1. Stewart Bryant: Discuss [2010-10-21]:
        
    I found the document very difficult to read for the reasons cited in point 1 of
    the GENART review.
    
    This issue needs to be addressed before publication. 
        
  2. Ralph Droms: Comment [2010-10-18]:
    
        
  3. Russ Housley: Comment [2010-05-19]:
      Please consider the comments from the Gen-ART Review by Enrico
      Marocco on 12 May 2010.  The review can be found at:
    
        http://www.softarmor.com/rai/temp-gen-art/
        draft-ietf-netlmm-mip-interactions-06-marocco.txt
  4. Tim Polk: Comment [2010-10-28]:
    There is one typo in the RFC Editor Note.  The change introduced by the
    following text is in section 3.2, not section 2.
    
    Still in section 2, in the last bullet of list item 5:
    
    I suspect the RFC Editor would work it out from the context, but suggest making
    the fix just to be sure.
  5. Dan Romascanu: Comment [2010-10-28]:
    The OPS-DIR review by Jouni Korhonen raised a number of non-blocking issues,
    most of them of editorial nature, which should be considered if a new revision
    of the  document is spun out:
    
    The document mentions that there are system specific issues that need to be
    taken into account; see Sections 4.2.1 and 4.3. Those are merely bypassed
    stating being "out of scope". While this is true, from operational and
    management perspective it would be nice to see even references here for further
    reading if any of those "out of scope" things have been solved or discussed
    somewhere. For example Section 4.2.1 depends on LMA discovery to work properly
    within the same administrative domain. There are solutions for this documented
    in IETF in PMIPv6 context. Another related nit to point out is that the document
    could actually mention that the separate HA/LMA functions actually would benefit
    from a shared subscriber database (e.g. AAA
    server) to work properly. The text
    seems to hint that anyway.
    
    Few editorial comments:
    
    o Section 2 should also say that it uses acronyms from RFC5213 and RFC3775.
    
    o Section 3 add a reference to HMIPv6-MIPv6.
    
    o Sequence number based ordering is possible (optional) for PMIPv6 in
    RFC5213
    unlike stated in Section 3.2, step 1) first bullet. Not that it would help to
    solve the issue described here, but using sequence numbers in
    PMIPv6 is possible
    in general as an option.
    
    o Section 3.2 step 4) last bullet I do not understand why it mentions "both
    host-based and network-based security associations are used to update the same
    binding cache entry at the HA/LMA" as earlier the scenario has been scoped so
    that HA & LMA binding caches are separate.
    
    o Section 3.2 -> s/(or binging cache)./(or binding cache).
                  -> s/RFC4832, section 2.2/RFC4832, Section 2.2
                  -> add a reference to IKEv2 [RFC5996]
    
    o Section 3.3 says the ".. advertising the home link prefix to the MN in a
    unicast Router Advertisement message." While it makes sense and is typical
    behavior when a MAG receives a Router Solicitation, it is not necessarily the
    case always. The MAG can send multicast Router Advertisements when it so decides
    or send it before receiving a Router Solicitation.
    
    o Section 4.2.1 -> s/MN-HoA.For/MN-HoA. For
    
    o Section 4.2.2 -> s/MAG. the/MAG. The
    
    o Section 4.2.2 could reference to draft-ietf-netlmm-lma-discovery when it
    discusses about LMA discovery and it not being defined in RFC5213.
    
    o Section 5 reference [pmipv6-draft] should be [RFC5213].
    
    o The document uses both (P)MIPv6 and (Proxy) Mobile IPv6 interchangeably.
    It should stick with one style.
    
    o The document uses both BCE and binding cache entry interchangeably. It should
    stick with one style.
    
    o The document uses both HA and Home Agent interchangeably. It should stick with
    one style.
    
    o The document uses both HA/LMA and LMA/HA interchangeably. It should stick with
    one style.
    
    o Most of the acronyms are not expanded on the first use.
  6. Sean Turner: Comment [2010-05-20]:
    I support Tim's DISCUSS positions.
    
    Some nits:
    
    Section 3, second sentence:
    OLD
                                                   This document does not
                                                                 ^^^^
       only focus on scenarios where the two protocols are used by the same
       mobile node to manage local and global mobility, but it investigates
                                                            ^^
       also more complex scenarios where the protocols are more tightly
       ^^^^
    NEW
                                                    This document not
       only focuses on scenarios where the two protocols are used by the same
       mobile node to manage local and global mobility, but also investigates
       more complex scenarios where the protocols are more tightly
    
    Section 3, page 9, line 4:
    OLD
       depicted in the figure.  However, the LMA and HA can be also
                                                            ^^^^^^^
    NEW
       depicted in the figure.  However, the LMA and HA can also be

draft-katagi-clefia

  1. Ralph Droms: Comment [2010-10-27]:
    
      

draft-irtf-rrg-recommendation

draft-irtf-mobopts-mpa-framework