ALTO Virtual Meeting Monday, Dec-18-2017 6:00am US Central - 8:00am US Central Notes taken by Jensen Zhang and Y. Jace Liu Jabber monitored by Richard Yang Meeting materials at https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2017-alto-01/materials/ Attendees: 13 (including chair). Chair Slides and WG Status, Vijay K. Gurbani; slides at [1] ------------------------------------------------------------ Agenda bashed. Last f2f meeting was in Prague (Jul 2017). Plan to meet in London (Mar 2018). Milestones out of date; chairs to coordinate with AD. Multi-cost RFC 8189 published in October 2017. Vijay went through the WG deliverables and status of each deliverable. Some of the I-Ds have agenda time during the meeting, so we will get an update during the presentation. For other I-Ds assigned to deliverables, Vijay noted the following: - Action item for xdom-disc authors: Please see slide 7 [1] and post an update to the mailing list on the status of this document. The WG needs to move this work ahead as the impression is that it is mature. - Action item for incr-updates-sse authors: This I-D fulfils two milestones (slide 9 of [1]). Authors to post quick update on status of this I-D on mailing list. Richard Yang (as author): I-D needs some minor changes that will be completed after the end of year break. - Action item for performance-metrics authors: Please see slide 10 [1] and post an update to the mailing list on the status of this document. CDNI Request Routing, Shawn Lin; slides at [2] ---------------------------------------------- Shawn went through some changes in the draft. There do not appear to be any major open issues with the draft, although Shawn wants to add more content. Chair suggested to revise as soon as possible and post on mailing list to move the work ahead. Richard Yang agrees and will plan a sync-up meeting among the authors. ALTO Cost Calendar, Sabine Randriamasy; slides at [3] ----------------------------------------------------- This work is fairly mature and may suffer from feature creep if we are not careful (see slide 10 of [3]). The general discussion of the working group was that we should close editorial issues with this draft and move ahead to WGLC instead of adding new functionality in this draft. - Action item for the chairs: Ratify the decision to go to WGLC on list and move work ahead. The work has been reviewed by Jensen and Dawn. PANRG Lightning talk on ALTO, Sabine Randriamasy; slides at [4] -------------------------------------------------------------- Sabine presented ALTO as a protocol for PANRG that may provide PANRG a ready-made solution for dealing with path properties and endpoint selection of paths. PANRG appears to be aware of ALTO and ALTO is presented as a candidate protocol along with SCION (slide 4 of [4]). - Action item for Sabine and Dawn is to continue fostering the discussion with PANRG, and if PANRG would like to make a f2f presentation in the ALTO WG on their requirements during the London IETF, that may be beneficial. ALTO Path Vector, Dawn Chen; slides at [5] ------------------------------------------ The working group felt that the work is now mature; Sabine has reviewed this work extensively. Considering the importance of this draft to the re- chartered ALTO WG, the chairs would like to have an additional sustained review of the work. Chairs to solicit volunteers for a second review. There are no open issues that the authors are aware of besides ensuring that SSE and path-vector work well with each other (i.e., no implicit dependencies). - Action item for chairs to solicit an additional reviewer for this work. Unified Property Map, Dawn Chen; slides at [6] ---------------------------------------------- There is a dependency between unified-props-new and path-vector; latter depends on the former. Thus unified-props-new needs to proceed first, or both drafts can proceed as a bundle. Some discussion on representing cellular addresses in ALTO. Currently, cellular addresse format is specified in a companion draft (individual, draft-randriamasy-alto-cellular-ssresses-01). Decision for the working group is two-fold: (1) Are cellular addresses an important abstraction that the working group will like to maintain in ALTO? (2) If yes, is the unified-props-new draft the correct place to add the cellular representation? - Action item: Chairs to post these questions on the mailing list. Exascale network optimization, Qiao Xiang; slides at [7] -------------------------------------------------------- This is an individual draft; however, the chair (Vijay) and the working group (Richard Yang, Sabine Randriamasy) feel that the work is important enough to archive. It is an excellent use case of how ALTO can help with resource orchestration in large-scale networks. Possibilities are to move this as an Informational RFC either sponsored by the WG or by the AD. - Action item: Chairs to determine how to effectively move this work ahead. ALTO Flow-based Query Cost Extension, Jensen Zhang; slides at [8] ----------------------------------------------------------------- This is an individual draft as well. Richard feels that the flow extension problem is an important one to tackle in ALTO. However, the working group needs to decide how to move this work ahead. - Action item: Chairs to determine how to effectively move this work ahead. ALTO Path Vector Compression, Kai Guo; slides at [9] ---------------------------------------------------- This is an individual draft that depends on the path-vector work. As with the other individual drafts, need to decide what to do with this work. The first order of business is to finish the current deliverables and milestones. References: [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2017-alto-01/materials/slides-interim-2017-alto-01-sessa-chair-slides/ [2] https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2017-alto-01/materials/slides-interim-2017-alto-01-sessa-cdni-request-routing/ [3] https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2017-alto-01/materials/slides-interim-2017-alto-01-sessa-alto-cost-calendar/ [4] https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2017-alto-01/materials/slides-interim-2017-alto-01-sessa-alto-panrg-lightning-talk/ [5] https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2017-alto-01/materials/slides-interim-2017-alto-01-sessa-alto-path-vector/ [6] https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2017-alto-01/materials/slides-interim-2017-alto-01-sessa-alto-unified-properties/ [7] https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2017-alto-01/materials/slides-interim-2017-alto-01-sessa-resource-orchestration-for-large-scale-multi-domain-data-analytics/ [8] https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2017-alto-01/materials/slides-interim-2017-alto-01-sessa-alto-flow-based-cost-query/ [9] https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2017-alto-01/materials/slides-interim-2017-alto-01-sessa-alto-routing-state-abstraction/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Raw notes from Jensen Zhang and Y. Jace Liu IETF 100, ALTO WG Interim Meeting, Mon Dec 18, 2017 0700-0900, US-ET Audience: 16 people on Webex Meeting note taker: Jensen Zhang, Y. Jace Liu Jabber scribe: Y. Richard Yang === Chair Slides, Vijay K. Gurbani === Slide: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2017-alto-01/materials/slides-interim-2017-alto-01-sessa-chair-slides/ Vijay confirmed any changes of the schedule and Richard added a slot of SSE incremental update. Vijay thought there are many things to move forward massively, and introduced every project progress. CDNI FCI: the author was in the meeting, and there is existing a draft. The author would move ahead. Alternative Server Discovery Document: author was not online, and Vijay would ask the author to send updates of the draft on the mailing list. Path vector: the author was in the meeting, and there is existing a draft. The author would move ahead. Endpoint property extension: the author was in the meeting, and there is existing a draft. The author would move ahead. Server-initiated notifications and incremental update: the author was in the meeting, and there is existing a draft. The author would move ahead. Richard said some minor edits would be completed right after the year's break. cost property extension document: alto cost calendar would took one slot of the meeting, and the author would move forward the updates of the draft. The author would send updates of performance metrics on mailing list. === CDNI request routing, Shawn Lin === Draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-alto-cdni-request-routing-alto/ Slide: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2017-alto-01/materials/slides-interim-2017-alto-01-sessa-cdni-request-routing/ There are some changes in the draft. 1, The name of CDCI FCI ALTO Service has been renamed to CDNI FCI Map Service, to follow the name convention. 2, The draft suggested to use JSON Patch for incremental update. 3, Some examples have been added in the draft. 4, The draft include new filters on capabilities and footprints. Vijay asks for the open issues. Shawn said that he want to add more content into the ietf draft. Vijay suggested to revise it as soon as possible so that people could look at it and move to the next step. Richard said Shawn has made some differences and is trying to get feedbacks from Kevin, Jon and Jan. They would plan a sync-up meeting to get feedbacks, then they would post remaining issues and updates on the mailing list. === ALTO cost calendar, Sabine Randriamasy === Draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-alto-cost-calendar/ Slide: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2017-alto-01/materials/slides-interim-2017-alto-01-sessa-alto-cost-calendar/ Based on the working group feedbacks, some changes has been made to the draft. Some design about calendar attributes was updated, and some clarifications is included in the draft. Besides, the draft was reworded and cleaned up. Vijay gave his feedback that the project is relatively mature, and should not include new stuff there. Richard held the second opinion, the new stuff and design could be contained in next version, but it’s better for now to focus on the wording problems. Dawn agree with the idea that the calendar should move to working group last call and nobody object to it. Decision: calendar should move to working group last call. === PANRG lightning talk on ALTO, Sabine Randiamasy === Slide: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2017-alto-01/materials/slides-interim-2017-alto-01-sessa-alto-panrg-lightning-talk/ Vijay thanks for the presenting of ALTO Lightning on PANRG, hoped Dawn and Sabine could follow up on the London IETF meeting, to see if anything proactive we can do. Richard agree and demonstrate that the great use cases really match the topic we’ve done and we are interested. Because of the location of members of PANRG group, they can’t attend the meeting, but Dawn and Sabine have done a great job to have conversations with them. Sabine said It would be great if PANRG could get a slot in the meeting, to talk about how they look at the material. Vijay and Richard agreed. Qiao noticed that on the of the key question of PANRG is “trustworthy” of path properties, and he was wondering what the “trustworthy” is about. Qiao has also concerned if ALTO should provide information about the “trustworthy”. Vijay: please explain briefly. Sabine: The only thing I mentioned related to that is in the security consideration of the base protocol. Typically because it’s the information exchange between operator and hosts that is subscribing to the operator, there has to be an assumption of trust between the 2 parties, so this is the only way I agree. There is no mechanism that ensures mutual trust. It’s kind of a mutual incentive to ask for reliable requests and responses. Qiao:we could take a discussion offline. === ALTO path vector, Dawn Chen === Draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-alto-path-vector/ Slide: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2017-alto-01/materials/slides-interim-2017-alto-01-sessa-alto-path-vector/ Dawn discussed a lot of updates on the path vector based on the review. Vijay: Thanks for Sabine’s recent review. We need one more review, because this is an important output as a recharter. Anybody want to be volunteer, please send me and Jan an email. Vijay: Any open issues from Richard? Richard: Only thing would be to make sure the multipart would work well with SSE. We need to review it carefully. Vijay: It is an important point. Call for volunteer. Will talk with Jan about this. === Unified property map, Dawn Chen === Draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-alto-unified-props-new/ Slide: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2017-alto-01/materials/slides-interim-2017-alto-01-sessa-alto-unified-properties/ This revision only does some minor changes. Richard: Path vector depends on the unified property. We need to proceed the unified property before the path vector. Sabine: Register the cellular address as a domain in the unified property draft? Dawn: You can register it in the individual draft Kai: Could it introduce some draft dependency issues Vijay proposed two questions to discuss later: A: Does WG feel the cellular addresses are the important abstraction? B: If they are, can they be put in the unified property? === Exascale network optimization, Qiao Xiang === Draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xiang-alto-exascale-network-optimization/ Slide: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2017-alto-01/materials/slides-interim-2017-alto-01-sessa-resource-orchestration-for-large-scale-multi-domain-data-analytics/ Qiao talked about the recent deployment experience on the multi-domain scientific data analytics use case. Vijay pointed this was a very good work. Need to talk with Jan how to move the draft ahead. Richard commented that it would be nice if this work could be an informational document. Because it is a pretty good use case. Vijay agreed on this. Sabine: This work is about the multi-domain science data analytics system. Is it possible to extend the work to other types of analytics systems. e.g. the IoT system. Qiao: Good point. Will discuss it offline. === ALTO flow-based query cost extension, Jensen Zhang === Draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-gao-alto-fcs/ Slide: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2017-alto-01/materials/slides-interim-2017-alto-01-sessa-alto-flow-based-cost-query/ Jensen reviewed the updates and FCS additional requirements on ALTO. The current solution for the validation problem is discussed. Vijay: It is still an individual draft. We need to decide how to proceed it. Richard: The flow extension problem is important. And the service should be valuable for ALTO. If we can finish this draft quickly, we can have chance. Sabine would like to write some comments and post them in the mailing list. Sabine mentioned that the idea of avoiding full-mesh request maybe more important than introducing the port number. === Compression ALTO path vectors, Kai Gao === Draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-gao-alto-routing-state-abstraction/ Slide: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2017-alto-01/materials/slides-interim-2017-alto-01-sessa-alto-routing-state-abstraction/ Routing State Abstraction (RSA) proposed a reference implementation of the path vector. The major change of this version is to cleanup the routing state abstraction algorithm. Kai gave a brief introduction. Vijay: This draft depends on the path vector draft, or opposite? Kai: It depends on the path vector. Vijay: Like flow query, we need to open some discussions to see whether people in WG are interested in it. Richard: That is a good idea. It will be related to recharter.