CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting
September 22, 2020     21:00 Amsterdam  ***
                       19:00 UTC
                       15:00 NYC
                       12:00 San Francisco

INFO:
   https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-interim-2020-cellar-09-cellar-01/

WEB CONFERENCE:
   https://whereby.com/cellar-interim
   THERE IS NO TELEPHONE DIALIN (You can try this at any time.)
   These notes at: https://github.com/cellar-wg/chair-notes

1. Note Well.  https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/
2. Accept draft minutes from June 23 meeting (attached below)
    Accepted without changes.

3. Logistics for Meeting.
   3a) Shared COMIMD for notetaking: https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-cellar-virtual  <- New as of this meeting.
   3b) APPEAR.IN is now called "whereby.com"
       https://whereby.com/cellar-interim
   3c) Roll call

4. WG status update
   * EBML -- this is an RFC, but we now have PRs against it in Github. 
       * potentially should become errata: https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8794 
       * RFC editor can now accept inline errata, just add XML
       * some PR was from 2019? maybe it can just be closed? 
       * Matroska, new compression format, new value in an ENUM, but with a new value, parsers will not be able to read it.  Seems to be missing an IANA Registry?
           * make a PR, and lets's figure this out on the list.
           * maybe this is an Update RFC8794 document? 
   * FFV1 -- version 17 was posted 2020-08-21, now in IESG Evaluation
     ballots are at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1/ballot/
   *** Likely to be moved one or two telechats into the future after Barry Leiba Discuss ballot with comments ***
   Spencer: this was deferred by our AD, which moves it to the next telechat agenda. 
       Can we update the draft in two weeks?
       
    Jerome has pull request on Erik Kline comments https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFV1/pull/229, 
    partial response to Barry is imminent, but two items are open:
    
       — Section 3.8.1.1 —
    I’m not sure how to interpret the stuff in this section.  First, I don’t know why there are seven “figures”, with no captions nor other explanation.  Second, I’m having trouble making sense out of things like this:

   S_(i + 1, C_(i)) =  zero_state_(S_(i, C_(i)))  AND
              l_(i) =  L_(i)                      AND
              t_(i) =  R_(i) - r_(i)              <==
              (b_(i) =  0                          <==>
              L_(i) <  R_(i) - r_(i))

    Can you explain how this is meant to be read?  Maybe it’s just me, and maybe after you explain it I’ll whack myself on the head and say, “Doh!”
    
DISCUSSION about what <== means, and how it is really "FOO if BAR;"

IF            (b_(i) =  0                          AND
               L_(i) <  R_(i) - r_(i))
THEN
   S_(i + 1, C_(i)) =  zero_state_(S_(i, C_(i))) ;
              l_(i) =  L_(i)                     ;
              t_(i) =  R_(i) - r_(i)              



    Third, you say, “S_(0, i) is the i-th initial state,” but you haven’t previously introduced the term “state”, and I don’t know what it means.

   — Section 3.8.1.2 —

   "get_rac" returns a boolean, computed from the bytestream as
   described in Section 3.8.1.1. 

5. Confirm no action required on https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc8794/ HTML5.2 reference
    Even though XHTML 5.2 maybe deprecated, we do not have to change the reference.
    

6. EBML PRs
    None.

7. Matroska issues
    https://github.com/cellar-wg/matroska-specification/issues/422
    https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cellar/ZpZxhG1gML9xVx_ir1Jf6_gcI8U/
    https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cellar/mTprgjNqVbe20e6hyYxns8ZnVwY/
    Make a guideline how to setup the timestamp scale to have the least error possible, and then provide the math to calculate the accumulating error.
    You do not have to use 1ms, but due to lack of advice, everyone is using 1ms.
    Have a numerator/denominator, as a new extension, so it must also be stored into old format, which is less accurate.
    

8. FLAC issues

AOB?

	None noted.

NEXT MEETING October 27, 2020.

Notes from orevious meeting for approval

CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting June 23, 2020 
21:00 Amsterdam *** 
19:00 UTC 
15:00 NYC 
12:00 San Francisco

Present:
Spencer Dawkins
Martin Below
Steve Lhomme
Jérôme Martinez
Michael Richardson
Michael Niedermayer

INFO: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-interim-2020-cellar-06-cellar-01/
WEB CONFERENCE: https://whereby.com/cellar-interim THERE IS NO TELEPHONE DIALIN (You can try this at any time.) These notes at: https://github.com/cellar-wg/chair-notes

1. Note Well. https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/
2. Accept draft minutes from May 26, 2020 meeting (attached below)
3. Logistics for Meeting. 
3a) Etherpad for notes https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-cellar-virtual?useMonospaceFont=true
https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-cellar-virtual  <- use this for the next meeting.
3b) APPEAR.IN is now called "whereby.com" https://whereby.com/cellar-interim
3c) Roll call

4. WG status update
EBML -- lots of pull requests in response to RFC Editor AUTH48 comments. 
Are we all OK with them? This is a product of the working group
https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc8794.xml  <-- 
https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc8794.html 
https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc8794.pdf
https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc8794.txt
https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc8794-diff.html 
FFV1 -- version 15 was posted 23 June 2020 *** NEEDS REVISED VERSION after AD Review ***
passed back to AD for followup.

5. Other Matroska issues

AVC and HEVC are now specificed properly in the document
other issues can be processed asynchronously

6. Any update on September in-person Matroska meeting in Amsterdam with No Time To Wait?

No Time To Wait postponed to March 2021.
Cellar meeting of 2020-09-22 will be virtual interim.
no Cellar meeting in July, 2020 due to IETF108 meeting
next meeting 2020-08-25.