# CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting | Date |Time | Local Times | |:------:|:-----------:|:------| |2021-10-26 |21:00 Amsterdam |[Time Converter](https://savvytime.com/converter/netherlands-amsterdam-to-utc-ny-new-york-city-ca-san-francisco/jun-22-2021/9pm)| | **Note** | Meeting time is anchored to Amsterdam | ## Administrivia ### INFO: https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/tree/master/interim-2021-09 **Note that we're now pointing to the Github repo for chair notes here** ### WEB CONFERENCE: https://whereby.com/cellar-interim THERE IS NO TELEPHONE DIALIN (You can try connecting to the whereby.com link at any time.) :::warning We are still on whereby.com for this meeting, but still planning to move to Meetecho for upcoming meetings. Please stay alert! ::: #### Shared COMIMD for notetaking: https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-cellar-virtual * Note that if you log in to the IETF datatracker, you'll be able to edit these notes, add your name to attendee lists, etc. * Please ask Spencer if you have questions. :::warning The ComiMD URL is still redirecting, but the newly official location is https://notes.ietf.org/notes-cellar-virtual?edit - and that's active now. Please bookmark the new one when you're redirected to it. ::: ### Logistics for Meeting #### 2021 virtual interim meeting dates * Please note our 2021 dates listed at https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/cellar/meetings/ * November 23, 2021: 21:00 Paris (2000 UTC) ## Agenda Items ### Note Well: https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/ #### Roll call Attendees * Spencer Dawkins * Michael Richardson * Steve Lhomme * Jerome Martinez * Martijn van Beurden * Reto Kromer * Dave Rice * Michael Niedermayer Regrets * ### News You Can Use * **NOTE** that https://mediaarea.net/NoTimeToWait5 is December 8-10, with in-person and virtual registration - a lot of us are attending ** workshop on improving Matroska, and how to improve FFV1. ** the workshops are on December 8, meeting 9/10. #### Proposed final dates for 2022 Cellar meetings * 2022-01-25 * 2022-02-22 * 2022-03-29 * 2022-04-26 * 2022-05-24 * 2022-06-28 * 2022-08-23 * 2022-09-27 * 2022-10-25 * 2022-12-06 **ACTION** Michael sending request to our ADs and requesting secretariat to add these meetings in the datatracker ### WG status update * draft-ietf-cellar-chapter-codecs-00 was posted 2021-10-09, in ID Exists **New this month** * draft-ietf-cellar-codec-07 was posted 2021-10-19, in ID Exists * draft-ietf-cellar-control-00 was posted 21-10-09, in ID Exists **New this month** * draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-17 was posted 2021-05-25, in ID Exists * draft-ietf-cellar-flac-01 was posted 2021-04-27, in ID Exists, **New version being posted manually** * draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-08 was posted 2021-10-09, in ID Exists * draft-ietf-cellar-tags-0 was posted 2021-10-09, in ID Exists ### Milestone review: * Previous status: Jerome is now able to focus on FFV1-v4, since we've published FFV1. **ACTION** Spencer to send e-mail to DISPATCH when we submit a (small) update. We should wait until we have a bit more text, or bigger issues, to publish as a draft. * Are we ready to submit a working group draft for EBML updates (errata plus additions) yet? (https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/ebml-specification/tree/corrections-doc) - we can still wait for more feedback/bigger changes before submitting anything - ETA is "after we get Matroska out, so we know everything Matroska needs will be covered" * **Have we selected a new editor for FLAC?** actually, no, and we need to. This work is heating up, but until this becomes a bottleneck, we can wait until Matroska is out #### Accept draft minutes from previous meeting (attached below) * Any objections? Please let us know on the mailing list. * No objections on the mailing list or on the call. ### Making sure we have copyright issues straightened out for the FLAC specification * Remember, the issue we care about right now is whether the IETF can publish a FLAC specification * Our "last Contact" for the specification we're working with, is "Copyright (c) 2000-2009 Josh Coalson, 2011-2014 Xiph.Org Foundation" (https://xiph.org/flac/format.html) ##### Discussion on the call * We are still verifying what the license covering the specification is - it's GFL 1.1, specified in the HTML file * Continue with the current document, or start a new one? * Dave has confirmed with Andrew Weaver that he's not interested in continuing the work * Our issue is that the IETF licensing is incompatible with GFL license, because we're using copyright as a substitute for a trademark, since trademark doesn't exist in all countries * This is probably a conversation we should have with the IETF Trust * We should also give our ADs a heads-up * Michael is writing a note to the IETF Trust on our call, asking for guidance ### Matroska issues - Discussion on the call * Merging the easy PRs for now * Two categories of issues are left * Checking with Moritz on 3-4 pull requests, can move ahead without a reply * Steve - we're close to being ready for a full review * New Matroska docs were taken out of the main specification, and aren't blocking for us to move forward * Both new documents need closer looks and discussion ### FLAC issues - Discussion on the call * Lots of open issues and PRs are new * We have a new version, being posted manually * ("Ongoing") * We need to track our changes to FLAC while we chase down the plan for dealing with the original text ### FFV1 v4 issues - Discussion on the call * No discussion on the call ## AOB? * We have new test files repos - **ACTION** Spencer to update our activity report * We will meet on Whereby in November meeting, and then (try to) migrate to MeetEcho as a group * Keep an eye on CoViD-19 situations no matter where you are and where you will be! :::success NEXT MEETING 2021-11-23 :tada: ::: ## Notes from previous meeting for approval # CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting | Date |Time | Local Times | |:------:|:-----------:|:------| |2021-09-28 |21:00 Amsterdam |[Time Converter](https://savvytime.com/converter/netherlands-amsterdam-to-utc-ny-new-york-city-ca-san-francisco/jun-22-2021/9pm)| | **Note** | Meeting time is anchored to Amsterdam | ## Administrivia ### INFO: https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/tree/master/interim-2021-07 **Note that we're now pointing to the Github repo for chair notes here** ### WEB CONFERENCE: https://whereby.com/cellar-interim THERE IS NO TELEPHONE DIALIN (You can try connecting to the whereby.com link at any time.) :::warning We are still on whereby.com for this meeting, but still planning to move to Meetecho for upcoming meetings. Please stay alert! ::: #### Shared COMIMD for notetaking: https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-cellar-virtual * Note that if you log in to the IETF datatracker, you'll be able to edit these notes, add your name to attendee lists, etc. * Please ask Spencer if you have questions. :::warning The ComiMD URL is still redirecting, but the newly official location is https://notes.ietf.org/notes-cellar-virtual?edit - and that's active now. Please bookmark the new one when you're redirected to it. ::: ### Logistics for Meeting #### 2021 virtual interim meeting dates * Please note our 2021 dates listed at https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/cellar/meetings/ * October 26, 2021: 21:00 Paris (1900 UTC) * November 23, 2021: 21:00 Paris (2000 UTC) ## Agenda Items ### Note Well: https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/ #### Roll call Attendees * Spencer Dawkins * Dave Rice * Michael Richardson * Jerome Martinez * Michael Niedermayer * Steve Lhomme * Martijn van Beurden Regrets * Reto Kromer * ### News You Can Use * **NOTE** that https://mediaarea.net/NoTimeToWait5 is December 8-10, with in-person and virtual registration - are Cellar people attending? ** workshop on improving Matroska, and how to improve FFV1. ** the workshops are on December 8, meeting 9/10. #### Default dates for 2022 Cellar meetings * 2022-01-25 * 2022-02-22 * 2022-03-22 (but this is IETF 113 - move it to 2022-03-29) * 2022-04-26 * 2022-05-24 * 2022-06-28 * 2022-07-26 (but this is IETF 114 - we canceled July in 2021. Is canceling July the right summer month to cancel? Yes - we MIGHT be meeting in person, at the IETF, but too soon to know that yet) * 2022-08-23 * 2022-09-27 * 2022-10-25 * 2022-11-22 (this is Tuesday of American Thanksgiving - does anyone care?) * 2022-12-27 (but this is winter break for most of us, so we canceled in 2021. Maybe move it to 2022-12-06, or is that too close to the November meeting? proposed final dates: * 2022-01-25 * 2022-02-22 * 2022-03-29 * 2022-04-26 * 2022-05-24 * 2022-06-28 * 2022-08-23 * 2022-09-27 * 2022-10-25 * 2022-12-06 **ACTION** Spencer to confirm on mailing list ### WG status update * draft-ietf-cellar-codec-06 was posted 2021-04-12, in ID Exists * draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-17 was posted 2021-05-25, in ID Exists * draft-ietf-cellar-flac-01 was posted 2021-04-27, in ID Exists * draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-07 was posted 2021-04-12, in ID Exists * draft-ietf-cellar-tags-06 was posted 2021-04-12, in ID Exists ### Milestone review: * Previous status: Jerome is now able to focus on FFV1-v4, since we've published FFV1. **ACTION** Spencer to send e-mail to DISPATCH when we submit a (small) update. We should wait until we have a bit more text, or bigger issues, to publish as a draft. * Are we ready to submit a working group draft for EBML updates (errata plus additions) yet? (https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/ebml-specification/tree/corrections-doc) * FLAC still needs an editor to complete the work. Michael did hear back from Florin, and he's unable to serve as editor, so the working group has a decision to make about FLAC. ##### Discussion on the call * Steve is waiting for reviews on Matroska (should we just merge everything? :-) Timescale looks like the tricky question, for now. Can start preliminary review on merged documents then. Planning to sort IDs for IANA (we have over 100 of them) - want to make sure this is easy to verify correctness. **IANA will accept XML file for everything** * When RFC for Matroska is published, do we have to do anything to update links to Internet-Drafts? No, that's handled by IANA. #### Accept draft minutes from previous meeting (attached below) * Any objections? Please let us know on the mailing list. * No objections during the call. ### Matroska issues - Discussion on the call * Mostly validating patches and approving them ### FFV1 v4 issues - Discussion on the call * Jerome has ideas for proof of concepts, but not ready to share that yet. * Some questions about licensing in IETF - license on FFV1 not present, patch has been approved and applied. License is same as Matroska. ### FLAC issues - Discussion on the call * (We noted that we don't have the original FLAC authors involved - we probably need to do some homework on this, to ensure that we handle copyright for FLAC correctly) * Remember to mention the FLAC format author(s) - "Josh Coalson", copyrights in 2009 and 2011 on the website * Martijn van Beurden would like to help, and has experience on libFLAC. For now, we just need to make sure that everything in the documents makes sense/is logical. If anything is missing, we just need to create issues (https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/Cellar-FLAC/issues) and PRs for that. ## AOB? * Spencer welcomed Martijn van Beurden and thanked him for his offer of help on FLAC :::success NEXT MEETING 2021-10-26 :tada: :::