Minutes of the 2021-10-25 IETF-IEEE 802 Coordination Teleconference

1. Welcome, roll call, agenda bashing

Present:

Alvaro Retana
Amy Vezza
Cullen Jennings
Donald Eastlake
Dorothy Stanley
ƒric Vyncke
Erik Kline
Francesca Palombini
Glenn Parsons
Jodi Haasz
John Scudder
Jon Rosdahl
Juan-Carlos Zœ–iga
Lars Eggert
Martin Duke
Pascal Thubert
Patrick Kinney
Paul Congdon
Paul Nikolich
Rob Wilton
Robert Grow
Roger Marks
Russ Housley
Scott Mansfield
Warren Kumari
 

2. Action item updates

Withdrawn:

    - Pat Kinney to provide a status update on 802.15.12.
      + Originally added 2019-06-18; updated 2020-10-27
      + 2021-02-17: Dorothy Stanley agreed to reach out for an update
      + 2021-10-25: Pat Kinney reported 802.15.12 has been withdrawn, and 802.15.14 will move 
forward with pieces of the work. The action item is withdrawn.


    - Scott Mansfield and Rob Wilton to get IEEE and IETF people 
      together to brainstorm a way forward that will allow exact 
      match string comparison for MAC addresses.
      + Added 2020-06-15
      + 2021-02-17: Rob and Scott agreed to write up a summary of the 
        problem and send it to the coordination list
      + 2021-06-24: Rob reported that Scott presented this in NETMOD at 
        IETF 110 and has found some people interested in working on a 
        draft.
     + 2021-10-25: Scott Mansfield reported there was no critical mass to move the work 
forward. The action item is withdrawn. 

New:

NONE

3. IETF New Work summary
    [https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bof-requests]

    - Privacy Respecting Incorporation of Values (priv) 

Proposed as "Privacy Preserving Measurement (PPM)," the BoF was approved as "Privacy 
Respecting Incorporation of Values (PRIV)."

    - SCIM Industry Next Steps (sins) 
      o chartered as System for Cross-domain Identity Management (scim) 
        WG formed on 2021-10-22

The SCIM Working Group was reopened to take on the "next steps."

4. 802 New Work summary
   https://ieee802.org/PARs.shtml

    - 802.1ASds  - Amendment: Support for the IEEE Std 802.3 Clause 4 
      Media Access Control (MAC) operating in half-duplex, PAR and CSD

Glenn Parsons said the par is an amendment to 802.1AS, which did not take into account the 
half-duplex ethernet. This work will fix the gap.

Russ Housley asked if the IETF NTP and TICTOC working groups could be useful.

Erik Kline mentioned he would bring it to the attention of the chairs. 

    - 802.3df - Amendment: Media Access Control Parameters, Physical 
      Layers and Management Parameters for 200 Gb/s, 400 Gb/s, 800 Gb/s, 
      and 1.6 Tb/s Operation, PAR and CSD

Dorothy Stanley said this PAR is on higher speeds for computing and applications that has a 
range of applications.  Russ Housley mentioned the speeds noted in the PAR description would 
be traffic datacenter to datacenter. 

    - 802.11bb - Amendment: Light Communication, PAR Modification, and 
      CSD

Dorothy Stanley mentioned this PAR is a modification to 802.11 to reduce the scope of the 
standard to focus on near-term deliverables.

    - 802.15.3ma - Standard for High Data Rate Wireless Multi-Media 
      Networks - Revision to IEEE Standard 802.15.3-2016, PAR and CSD

Pat Kinney said this par would update some references to 802.15.3 standards and update 
references to 802.1 standards and  increase the bandwidth to .3.

5. Review current coordination items
   https://www.iab.org/wp-content/IAB-uploads/2021/06/Potential-areas-for-IETF_IEEE802-
Coordination_36.txt

Item 5: Enabling use of Local Addresses for virtualization and IoT (was: 
Effect of virtualization on IEEE 802 architecture)

Glenn Parsons said there was task group letter ballot in July 2021. The document is due to be in 
updated.

Roger Marks noted the document was in his queue to update. They may be open to sharing the 
current document with an IETF Working Group. 

It was suggested Roger present in the INTAREA session at IETF 112.

Action Item: Roger Marks to present the document at IETF 112 in the INTAREA session. 

Action Item: Coordinate with IEEE 802.1CQ

Item 25: Layer 2/Layer 3 Interaction for Time-Sensitive Traffic

Glenn Parsons said the blocking document [802.1Q] was in final ballot, and when it resolved the 
802.1QCZ would be realigned.

Russ Housley noted he would update the DETNET documents with the relevant RFC numbers.

Glenn agreed the coordination was going well.

Item 27: Development of YANG models in the IEEE 802

Glenn Parsons said 802f PAR, to define YANG models for ethertypes. They are liaising with the 
IETF on the appropriate designated owner of the registry.

Russ Housley mentioned that the registration was set up when the document was published. 

Rob Wilton asked if the NETMOD Working Group should be involved in the discussion. 

Glenn agreed that presenting to NETMOD would be useful. The relevant RFC is RFC 2637, which 
was an informational document [published in 1999], and the IETF designated expert didn't think 
the IETF should take ownership of the registry.

ƒric Vyncke and Juan-Carlos Zœ–iga would coordinate a discussion between the IETF INTAREA 
and NETMOD Working Group and IEEE 802f.

Donald Eastlake added that US Robotics would have to release control of the registry to the 
IETF.

Action Item: Juan-Carlos Zœ–iga to coordinate with Glenn Parsons on a presentation at IETF 112 
in the NETMOD WG.

Item 33: Capability Discovery

Paul Congdon will be giving an update on the status in IETF LSVR Working Group session.

Item 34: Reliable and Available Wireless (RAW)

Dorothy Stanley reported that the IEEE is tracking the IETF RAW work in 802.11 

Item 35: MAC Address Device Identification for Network and Application Services (MADINAS)

ƒric Vyncke reported that the newly-formed MADINAS Working Group had two documents to 
present and discuss at the upcoming IETF.

Juan-Carlos Zœ–iga said they would keep IEEE 802.11BH and 802.11BI informed of the work.

Glenn Parsons noted they should also keep IEEE 802.1 informed as well.

Juan-Carlos agreed.

6. Future meeting plans

Paul Congdon said that they have had a couple of individual contributions in the IEEE 802.1  [?] 
future vetting activity. The technology is using flow control in the datacenter. We have asked 
for agenda time in the IETF ICCRG session at IETF 112 to present some ideas on congestion 
control for RDMA transport. If it gets adopted, it will be something new to track.

Lars Eggert suggested a side meeting to discuss the ideas more widely as participants in more 
than one area might be interested in the work. 

Russ Housley said it would be good to hold a joint meeting after both IETF 112 and the 802 
Plenary Meeting. Paul agreed to coordinate a meeting.

Russ Housley led a general discussion on the amount of work in the IETF during COVID-19 
pandemic. He said that the IESG had shared information at IETF 111 about how mailing list 
traffic had not slowed significantly, and ongoing work was continuing, but new work was not 
coming in as much as it usually does. He wanted to know if the IEEE had noticed anything 
similar.

Jon Rosdahl said he had anecdotal evidence, but no real statistics that the IEEE was seeing 
something similar. He noted the number of 802 teleconferences had increased dramatically, 
and while the work is moving through the process slower, it was moving. He was also hearing 
complaints from 802.3 and 802.15 that new projects were taking a long time to get started.

Russ Housley agreed that number of interim meetings in the IETF had also increased. 

Paul Nikolich agreed with Jon's observations, and added IEEE has been discussing on how to 
transition back to in-person meetings, and the sooner that happens the better for bringing in 
new work. He asked if the IETF has been talking about a process to get back to face-to-face 
meetings.

Lars Eggert said while IETF 112 was fully online, the IETF was looking at venues for a hybrid 
meeting for IETF 113 in March 2022. The IETF 113 hybrid meeting would have a cap of 500 to 
600 people in-person, the rest online. Lars added the IETF was hoping to be back to mostly 
normal by IETF 114 in July 2022.