INTERNET ENGINEERING STEERING GROUP (IESG)
Narrative minutes for the 2022-04-07 IESG Teleconference

These are not an official record of the meeting.
Narrative Scribe: Amy Vezza, Secretariat

1. Administrivia
1.1 Roll call

ATTENDEES
---------------------------------
Andrew Alston (Liquid Intelligent Technologies) / Routing Area
Jenny Bui (AMS) / IETF Secretariat
Martin Duke (Google) / Transport Area 
Lars Eggert (NetApp) / IETF Chair, General Area
Sandy Ginoza (AMS) / RFC Editor Liaison
Erik Kline  / Internet Area
Murray Kucherawy (Facebook) / Applications and Real-Time Area
Mirja Kuehlewind (Ericsson) / IAB Chair
Warren Kumari (Google) / Operations and Management Area
Cindy Morgan (AMS) / IETF Secretariat
Francesca Palombini (Ericsson) / Applications and Real-Time Area
Alvaro Retana (Futurewei Technologies) / Routing Area
Zaheduzzaman (Zahed) Sarker (Ericsson) / Transport Area
John Scudder (Juniper) / Routing Area
Sabrina Tanamal (ICANN) / IANA Liaison
Amy Vezza (AMS) / IETF Secretariat
Eric Vyncke (Cisco) / Internet Area
Robert Wilton (Cisco Systems) / Operations and Management Area
Paul Wouters (Aiven) / Security Area
Qin Wu / IAB Liaison

REGRETS
---------------------------------
Jay Daley / IETF Executive Director
Roman Danyliw (CERT/SEI) / Security Area
Liz Flynn (AMS) / IETF Secretariat, Narrative Scribe

OBSERVERS
---------------------------------
Bob Hinden
Greg Wood


1.2 Bash the agenda

No items added.

1.3 Approval of the minutes of past telechats

Amy: Any objection to approving the minutes for both March 3 and March 
10? [no objection] Minutes are approved and we will post. Narrative 
minutes are available for March 3 and March 10, any objection to 
approving the final narrative minutes for those two telechats? [no 
objection] Those are approved, and we will post them. We also have the 
BoF Coordination Call minutes to approve. We received no comments on 
these. Any objection to approving this set of minutes? [no objection] 
Great, we will post those to the archive as well. Thank you!

1.4 List of remaining action items from last telechat

    OUTSTANDING TASKS
    
         Last updated: March 10, 2022
    
    * DESIGNATED EXPERTS NEEDED
    
      o Roman Danyliw to find designated experts for RFC 9180 [IANA 
        #1226140].
        - Added 2022-03-03 (2 telechat ago)

Amy: This is on as a MI to approve the experts Roman has identified, 
so we will mark this provisionally approved pending the MI.

      o Martin Duke to find designated experts for RFC 6335 (Service 
        Name and Transport Protocol Port Number Registry) [IANA  
        #1228043]
        - Added 2022-03-16 (0 telechats ago)

Amy: Added in the last week as a new AI for Martin.

     o Murray Kucherawy to find designated experts for RFC 9208, "IMAP 
       QUOTA Extension" [IANA #1229081]. 
       - Added 2022-04-04 (0 telechats ago)

Amy: Added in the last week as a new AI for Murray.
    
    * OPEN ACTION ITEMS
    
   o Alvaro Retana and Martin Vigoureux to draft a note to wgchairs 
        asking them to always confirm author/contributor status.
        - Added 2021-04-01 (22 telechats ago)

Amy: I saw draft text on this, so I think the drafting part it done.

Alvaro: I got some comments. I think we're done. But it is based on 
the shepherd writeup, so we're waiting for that to be published. This 
is waiting for the new shepherd write up to be available on the Web 
site and in the datatracker.

Lars: I think part of it is done. I think ƒric opened a ticket for 
this.

ƒric: I will follow up with the tools team.

Lars: And Greg for the Web site?

Alvaro: Waiting for that to be posted in both places.

Amy: We'll follow up on that.

   o Robert Wilton, Alvaro Retana, and Warren Kumari to report back to 
        the IESG on the impact of COVID-19 to the IETF in July 2022.
        - On hold; added 2021-06-10 (17 telechats ago)

Amy: On hold until late June/early July.

Lars: Question here. Wondering how many people reported COVID? I heard 
eight?

Amy: Last number I heard was seven. 

Warren: Did we include the NOC person?

Lars: Yes. I will wait for Jay to be back to confirm. Our COVID 
officer expected between one and five per day, and we were 
significantly under that.

Cindy: We have not had more tickets reporting COVID.

Lars: Encouraging.

Mirja: May be that people did not report.

Lars: They were supposed to. 

Warren: I may not have remembered to report after I returned home.

   o Murray Kucherawy to look into updating the guidance in BCP 13 on 
        when to add organizations to the "Standards-related 
        organizations that have registered Media Types in the 
        Standards Tree" list.
        - Added 2021-12-16 (6 telechats ago)

Murray: This is still in progress.

   o Francesca Palombini to follow up on the public archive of AUTH48 
        conversations.
        - Added 2022-03-03 (2 telechat ago)

Amy: Comment period ended here.

Francesca: I have not had time to incorporate all the comments. Add a 
MI next time?

Amy: Put on the agenda for the next formal call?

Francesca: Yes.


2. Protocol actions
2.1 WG submissions
2.1.1 New items
    
  o draft-ietf-teas-gmpls-signaling-smp-11  - IETF stream
    GMPLS Signaling Extensions for Shared Mesh Protection (Proposed
    Standard)
    Token: John Scudder
    IANA Review: IANA OK - Actions Needed
    Consensus: Yes
    Reviews: SECDIR Last Call Review (of -10): Ready 
             OPSDIR Last Call Review (of -10): Not Ready 
             GENART Last Call Review (of -10): Ready with Nits 
             RTGDIR Last Call Review (of -07): Has Nits

Amy: Has a discuss.

John: Thanks for the catch, I think it is good. I've talked with the 
shepherd and it will be an update to the document.

Amy: So substate of revised ID needed.

  o draft-ietf-bfd-rfc9127-bis-02  - IETF stream
    YANG Data Model for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD)
    (Proposed Standard)
    Token: John Scudder
    IANA Review: IANA OK - Actions Needed
    Consensus: Yes
    Reviews: RTGDIR Last Call Review: Ready 
             YANGDOCTORS Last Call Review (of -01): Ready with Issues 
             GENART Last Call Review (of -01): Ready 
             SECDIR Last Call Review - due: 2022-02-03

Amy: Has a discuss. 

John: Briefly. The authors are up to version -04, so I think it 
addresses them all.

Francesca: The discuss is cleared with the revision. The first comment 
there is still one in the appendix. The third comment I was hoping for 
more text in the draft, I won't block on this. They are explaining 
this is a choice one or the other. What happens if this is done wrong 
and get both?

John: I am a YANG idiot, I think if you use a choice the API doesn't 
let you get it wrong. Rob?

Rob: Yes, if it is a choice statement you can only get one or the 
other.

Francesca: I will clear. You can follow up for one more update if 
needed.

Amy so approved announcement to be sent with revised ID needed.


2.1.2 Returning items
    
  o draft-ietf-tls-external-psk-importer-07  - IETF stream
    Importing External PSKs for TLS (Proposed Standard)
    Token: Roman Danyliw
    IANA Review: IANA OK - Actions Needed
    Consensus: Yes
    Reviews: OPSDIR Last Call Review (of -05): Has Nits 
             GENART Last Call Review (of -05): Ready with Issues 
             ARTART Telechat Review - due: 2022-04-05
             SECDIR Last Call Review - due: 2020-10-15

Amy: Looks like this one is approved. 

Lars: I got an email they would do a revision.

Amy: So approved announcement to be sent and substate of revised ID 
needed.

  o draft-ietf-httpapi-linkset-09  - IETF stream
    Linkset: Media Types and a Link Relation Type for Link Sets
    (Proposed Standard)
    Token: Francesca Palombini
    IANA Review: Version Changed - Review Needed
    Consensus: Yes
    Reviews: GENART Last Call Review (of -06): Ready with Issues 
             SECDIR Last Call Review (of -06): Has Nits 
             I18NDIR Last Call Review - due: 2022-03-21
             OPSDIR Last Call Review - due: 2022-01-19

Amy: No discusses. Looks like it is approved.

Francesca: One update coming, and waiting on internationalization 
review promised. 

Amy: Will go into approved, AD follow up.

2.2 Individual submissions
2.2.1 New items

  NONE

2.2.2 Returning items

  o draft-carpenter-rfced-iab-charter
    IAB Charter Update for RFC Editor Model
    Token: Lars Eggert
    Reviews: ARTART Last Call Review (of -08): Ready
             I18NDIR Last Call Review (of -05): Ready with Nits
             GENART Last Call Review (of -05): Ready with Nits
             SECDIR Last Call Review (of -05): Ready
             INTDIR Last Call Review (of -05): Ready
             IOTDIR Last Call Review (of -05): Ready with Nits
             TSVART Last Call Review (of -05): Ready
             RTGDIR Last Call Review - due: 2022-03-07
             OPSDIR Last Call Review - due: 2022-03-07

Amy: This is a returning item.

Lars: I changed the area to "none." This is already approved, but it 
went through another Last Call. It removed a requirement for the IAB. 
I put it back to make sure this going forward with the other three 
documents to progress all four together. I'll send that note out.

Amy: This is in substate AD Follow up.

Lars: I will send a ticket to clear it.

2.3 Status changes
2.3.1 New items

  NONE

2.3.2 Returning items

  NONE

3. Document actions
3.1 WG submissions
3.1.1 New items
    
  o draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-28  - IETF stream
    IPv6 Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments (IPWAVE): Problem
    Statement and Use Cases (Informational)
    Token: Erik Kline
    IANA Review: Version Changed - Review Needed
    Consensus: Yes
    Reviews: SECDIR Telechat Review (of -27): Has Issues 
             INTDIR Telechat Review (of -27): Ready with Issues 
             ARTART Telechat Review (of -27): Almost Ready 
             INTDIR Last Call Review (of -20): Not Ready 
             SECDIR Telechat Review - due: 2022-04-05

Amy: I have a couple of discusses.

Erik: The author has not had a chance to reply to the feedback, but if 
someone needs to discuss. Thank you everyone for the careful reviews. 
I think there ought to be a way to make a reasonable problem 
statement. 

Warren: This is the last document for IPWAVE. I don't know how 
important it is for additional work. Information with background.

Erik: Fair assessment. I think the document process had several people 
attach their favorite technology to it. 

Warren: Not the most impactful. So we might as well. I would like to 
see IPWAVE shut down because it frees up people for other things.

Erik: I can shut down the WG now.

Lars: Given that IPWAVE seems dormant, we can task the chairs 
elsewhere. 

Erik: I can reach out to the author.

Amy: Sounds like this will require a revised ID.


  o draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency-09  - IETF stream
    DetNet Bounded Latency (Informational)
    Token: John Scudder
    IANA Review: IANA OK - No Actions Needed
    Consensus: Unknown
    Reviews: TSVART Last Call Review (of -08): Ready with Nits 
             ARTART Last Call Review (of -08): Ready with Issues 
             SECDIR Last Call Review (of -08): Has Issues 
             GENART Last Call Review (of -08): Ready 
             INTDIR Last Call Review (of -08): Ready with Nits 
             RTGDIR Last Call Review (of -06): Has Nits 
             SECDIR Telechat Review - due: 2022-04-05
             OPSDIR Last Call Review - due: 2022-02-08

Amy: I will change the consensus to YES from UNKNOWN. No discusses. 
Looks like it approved.

Francesca: I wanted to talk about the track. Not clear why the 
document is informational. I was wondering if there had been more 
discussion on that. Will it be referenced by standards track RFCs?

John: I can go check on that, but as far as I know it was sort of not 
debated in the group. I don't think it will be expected to be 
referenced by standards track stuff.

Francesca: I wanted to make sure it was discussed, because it was not 
clear. The authors added some stuff on the purpose based on Robert's 
ART review. Thank you for checking it.

Amy: Sounds like approved, announcement to be sent substate revised 
ID.

  o draft-ietf-lwig-minimal-esp-08  - IETF stream
    Minimal IP Encapsulating Security Payload (ESP) (Informational)
    Token: Erik Kline
    IANA Review: IANA OK - No Actions Needed
    Consensus: Yes
    Reviews: TSVART Last Call Review (of -06): On the Right Track 
             SECDIR Last Call Review (of -06): Ready 
             GENART Last Call Review (of -04): Ready with Issues 
             SECDIR Last Call Review (of -03): Has Nits 
             IOTDIR Last Call Review (of -03): Ready with Issues 
             OPSDIR Last Call Review - due: 2021-08-26

Amy: This document has discusses.

Erik: Thank you for the reviews. Daniel has been prompt in replying. 

Paul: I will contact him and discuss more, I will pick it up with him. 
I am fairly confident this will need a revision.

Amy: Substate revised ID needed.

  o draft-ietf-6man-mtu-option-13  - IETF stream
    IPv6 Minimum Path MTU Hop-by-Hop Option (Experimental)
    Token: Erik Kline
    IANA Review: IANA OK - Actions Needed
    Reviews: ARTART Last Call Review: Ready with Issues 
             TSVART Last Call Review (of -12): Not Ready 
             SECDIR Last Call Review (of -12): Has Nits 
             GENART Last Call Review (of -12): Ready 
             OPSDIR Last Call Review (of -12): Ready 
             TSVART Telechat Review - due: 2022-04-05
             INTDIR Telechat Review - due: 2022-04-03
             OPSDIR Telechat Review - due: 2022-04-05

Amy: Do we need to discuss the discusses?

Erik: We can. 

Alvaro: I suggested taking the shoulds out. He seemed to agree. I 
think he will take the normative words.

Erik: No normative text in 6.1 and 6.2?

Alvaro: The first two paragraphs in 6.1.

Murray: I hold a discuss and will disappear. I will clear if I see a 
revision, or hand it off to someone else to track when I go offline 
for the last half of April. I think they should look at the shoulds in 
6.2 as well.

Erik: I will look at the host behavior document and check for musts.

Bob Hinden: There has been a lot of comments relating to this and 
several changes were proposed. I think we have text for both of these 
in email. We'll update the draft for that.

Zahed: I have some of the same comments as well. So it would be good 
if I can get a link to the discussion on this.

Bob H.: Gorry's email this morning about changing both of those 
paragraphs. Definitely needs a new draft.

Amy: Substate revised ID needed for that work. 


3.1.2 Returning items

  NONE

3.2 Individual submissions via AD
3.2.1 New items

  NONE

3.2.2 Returning items

  NONE

3.3 Status changes
3.3.1 New items

  NONE

3.3.2 Returning items

  NONE

3.4 IRTF and Independent Submission stream documents
3.4.1 New items

  NONE

3.4.2 Returning items

  NONE

4. Working Group actions
4.1 WG creation
4.1.1 Proposed for IETF review

  NONE

4.1.2 Proposed for approval

  NONE

4.2 WG rechartering
4.2.1 Under evaluation for IETF review

  NONE

4.2.2 Proposed for approval

  NONE

5. IAB news we can use

Mirja: We have a call open for RSWG chairs we need to get some more 
candidates. 

Lars: We need to start twisting some arms for the RSWG chairs for the 
common good.

6. Management issues

6.1 [IANA #1227326] renewing early allocations for draft-ietf-ippm-
ioam-ipv6-options (IANA)

Martin: Yeah, this pretty close to shipping, so we need a more time.

[no objection]

Amy: Looks like early allocation is approved.

6.2 [IANA #1227526] renewing early allocation for RFC 8111 (Locator/ID 
Separation Protocol Delegated Database Tree (LISP-DDT)) (IANA)

Alvaro: This is shipped. Originally charter to produce only 
experimental document. But now LISP is chartered for standards track 
document and is on the list to look at and update. So we should renew 
this.

[no objection]

Amy: Approved.

6.3 [IANA #1228043] Designated expert for RFC 6335 (Service Name and 
Transport Protocol Port Number Registry) (IANA)

Amy: New action item for Martin.

Martin D: There are all the ports team which is a cast of thousands. 
And this is just to add this person [Michael Scharf] to the pile. 

6.4 Designated Experts for draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy 
(Andrew Alston)

Amy: This is clean up from Martin V. He didn't get quite through the 
process to approve these two people.

Andrew: Anything for me to do here?

Amy: Nope. Anyone else have any objection to the two folks Martin V. 
identified for the registry for this document? 

[no objection]

Amy: They are approved.

6.5 [IANA #1229081] Designated experts for RFC 9208, "IMAP QUOTA 
Extension" (IANA)

Amy: New AI for Murray as the AD for the EXTRA WG.

Murray: I have pinged the group for volunteers. I hope to have them, 
or will hand this off to Francesca if I'm out.

6.6 [IANA #1229134] Acceptance of media type registration from 
standards organization CWL Project (IANA)

Amy: Can anyone speak to this?

Murray: I can review this as an Action Item.

6.7 IAB's Response to FCC Request for Comments on Secure Internet 
Routing (Lars and Mirja)

Lars: I sent email to the group for the link to the document. I did 
wordsmith a little, but Mirja can ignore it. This is not something we 
have to approve, but it would be good if we were not surprised by it.

Warren: I don't think there is anything surprising, so if you have not 
read it. You should read it, it's short. 

Mirja: There is a deadline next Monday, but I am planning to submit 
this tomorrow.

Amy: Any concerns?

Lars: Get your comments in and Mirja will ship it.

6.8 Designated experts for RFC 9180 (Hybrid Public Key Encryption) 
(hpke) (Roman Danyliw)

Amy: Roman identified two people for this registry. Any objection?

[no objection]

Amy: Okay, they are approved.

7. Any Other Business (WG News, New Proposals, etc.)

Amy: Anything else to discuss?

Alvaro: For the shepherd write up, Greg pointed to the web site, so we 
are waiting for the datatracker. Will we send something out to the 
chairs about it?

Lars: I think we did? We should send something out.

Alvaro: I'll wait for that before sending the other note. Thanks.

Francesca: I have received a request for mailing list. I plan to go 
ahead and make the mailing list. I want to check there are no concerns 
with that?

Erik: The LWIG Curve document. Did Ben and Roman do some handover for 
that?

Paul: Does Ben have an open discuss here?

Erik: Yes. I will follow up with you and Roman. I think there is 
confirmation from a COSE expert they're okay with it. Something has to 
happen here.

Murray: Maybe expose it to SECDISPATCH to see what they say.

Erik: Not sure if this ever got SECDISPATCHed properly.

Murray: We should find some path. It came the wrong way, but it is 
useful. Are we going to hold process over content?

Warren: Feels weird.

Lars: I don't want to set a president that a WG can go beyond their 
charter by a lot. I think it can be put forward by an AD.

Murray: It was a colossus process problem. I think we should do 
something to get it moving.

Erik: Thank you.

Lars: Mirja brought it up already. We need to twist arms for the RSWG 
chair pool. I sent some emails earlier today. Our nominee pool is very 
shallow. If you want me to send some emails, give me names and I will. 
We're also collecting items for the retreat. If you have anything 
please add it now, and Mirja and I will try to dispatch it into IESG 
only, IAB only, or Joint.

Andrew: There is something the RTG ADs are working on, but we haven't 
yet defined the topic.

Lars: Great - even if it is not defined, add a placeholder so we know 
we need to budget time for it.

Mirja: Social interactions. I believe we will have a joint dinner 
Wednesday night.

Lars: There is a Google doc where you should add yourself so the 
Google people can give a list to their security folks. Also we're 
close to getting a NomCom chair. So if you are not running as an 
incumbent, you should think about who you would nominate to follow 
you. 

Alvaro: You should think about other people to nominate even if you 
want run again.

Warren: I have already started to try to convince people to run 
against me. Finding people who have the time and employer support is 
tricky.

Zahed: I have been trying to convince folks to nominate themselves.

Lars: Great.

Amy: Reminder the IESG Conflict of Interest disclosures need to be 
sent back by next Friday. Thank you. We'll talk next time.