Minutes From DetNet Virtual Interim 2023/01

WG ICS: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/upcoming.ics?filters=detnet

Datatracker: https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/detnet/about/

Tuesday, March 7, 2023

13:00 - 14:00 (UTC)
https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=DetNet+Interim&iso=20230307T13&p1=1440&ah=2

Materials:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2023-detnet-01/session/detnet

Note taking:
https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2023-detnet-01-detnet?both
Meetecho:
https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/interim/?short=7191119d-a526-4aaa-b7b1-0ea48cce5d18

Chat room: https://zulip.ietf.org/#narrow/stream/detnet
Session ICS:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2023-detnet-01/sessions/detnet.ics

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HxyW6L_ZeY

Slot Start Time (UTC) Duration Information

#1 13:00 10 min Title: Intro, Administrivia

Presenter: Chairs

Lou Berger presents:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2023-detnet-01/materials/slides-interim-2023-detnet-01-sessa-01-intro-administrivia-00.pdf

#2 13:10 10 min Title: Requirements Draft Update

Presenter: Peng Liu

Draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-scaling-requirements/01/

Peng Liu presents:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2023-detnet-01/materials/slides-interim-2023-detnet-01-sessa-02-requirements-draft-update-00.pdf

Lou Berger: What is your plan to address comments on the list?

Peng Liu: We tried to address most of them while some have not been
addressed(Section 4.3 and 4.4 ).

Lou Berger: Please make sure you addresss the great comments.

#3 13:20 30 min Title: Plan for progressing DetNet Data Plane Enhancements

Presenter: David Black

(start: 13:20)

David Black presents:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2023-detnet-01/materials/slides-interim-2023-detnet-01-sessa-03-plan-for-progressing-detnet-data-plane-enhancements-02.pdf

Discussion on time slot selection for working meetings.

Lou Berger: not hearing any objeciton to the proposal, all expressed can
live with it.

David Black: Let's try this and see how it works.

Technical discussion:

Toerless Eckert:

Janos Farkas: Agree with the proposal on refining requirements first
before queueing qiscusisons; do not do queueing for the beauty of
queuing but to address requirements.

Xuesong Geng: I also agree with the approach. Will encapsulation be
discussed after queueing discussion?

David Black: Some queuing mechanisms require data on the wire, cannot
avoid encapsulation discussions.

Xuesong Geng: Maybe, these two aspects will be considered together.

David Black: What is the additional data that is required to be
exchanged? Would be good to note that as part of looking at ueueing
mechanisms.

Yaakov Stein: When disucssing queuing, there is scalability issue to be
concerned. Loading. If loading is close to zero, then queuing does not
matter. If loading goes up, then queueing matters.

David Black: Empty queues are extreme case, generally agree with Yaakov
that some queuing mechanisms behave differently at low load vs. high
load.

Yaakov Stein: Scalability is not just nyumber of devices in the network
but bandwidth usage too (e.g., may see different behavior at higher
proportion of DetNet traffic). Requirements draft goes into detail in
timing, which is not always that important.

David Black: Suggest dicussion on the list on the requirements.

Yichou Li: Add 2nd bullet to item C: For each queueing solution,
evaluate data that would need to be communicated via encapsulation
element.

Toerless Eckert: Any suggestions on requirements document, please bring
them up. Customers are uncertaion until shown scalability works. Some
customers would not buy into a DetNet solution if it does not scale up
to 90% of DetNet traffic.

Yaakov Stein: Waht is the objective? Absolute bound: 100%? Or allow some
room to play with? It affects the queueing mechanisms you can look at.

Toerless Eckert: Talking of DetNet solution under the term
"deterministic", having hard time about non-hard bound.

David Black: Requirements draft includes different levels of DetNet
service that could accomodate different notions of bound.

Balázs Varga: Discussion started with hard bound requirements. Learnings
from last couple of years is that, e.g., industrial automation players
formulate requriements different than telco and IT. Could be consdered
in the requirements draft.

14:00 Adjourn