we hear you
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:00:56Z"}, {"author": "Watson Ladd", "text": "(now let me figure out where they go)
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:01:59Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Morgan", "text": "https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2023-mimi-10-mimi
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:02:21Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Morgan", "text": "yay, thank you Rohan!
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:05:43Z"}, {"author": "Jonathan Rosenberg", "text": "requirements and open questions look good to me
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:10:47Z"}, {"author": "Jonathan Rosenberg", "text": "Giles your audio is quite faint
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:11:48Z"}, {"author": "Konrad Kohbrok", "text": "Wait, why ware we conflating SII to SSI mapping with key distribution?
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:15:44Z"}, {"author": "Konrad Kohbrok", "text": "Did I miss something?
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:15:59Z"}, {"author": "Alissa Cooper", "text": "@Konrad, join the queue? There was some confusion about this on the list as well, would be good to clarify.
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:16:25Z"}, {"author": "Rohan Mahy", "text": "@Konrad, just raise your hand and ask as a clarifying question
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:16:39Z"}, {"author": "Konrad Kohbrok", "text": "Unfortunately, I'm in a space where I can't talk right now.
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:17:24Z"}, {"author": "Watson Ladd", "text": "I can't jabberscribe and take notes sadly
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:18:16Z"}, {"author": "Konrad Kohbrok", "text": "Thanks Alissa!
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:20:48Z"}, {"author": "Benjamin Beurdouche", "text": "OHTTP++ between Client and P1...
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:33:16Z"}, {"author": "Benjamin Beurdouche", "text": "P2 sorry
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:33:58Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Morgan", "text": "Tim's mic is clipping badly for me
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:39:05Z"}, {"author": "Raphael Robert", "text": "same here
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:39:25Z"}, {"author": "Watson Ladd", "text": "you will when user changes the preference and forgets to remove from the other
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:40:09Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "Well, you could timestamp the assertions
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:40:24Z"}, {"author": "Watson Ladd", "text": "I think people still cheat at candy crush saga
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:41:20Z"}, {"author": "Tim Geoghegan", "text": "Sorry about my mic, I have such bad luck with Meetecho on laptops
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:41:48Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "I was going to make the point Konrad just made
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:42:03Z"}, {"author": "Rohan Mahy", "text": "what ekr just said!
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:47:55Z"}, {"author": "Rohan Mahy", "text": "\"is the attacker willing to represent an identity they don't own?\"one provider's assertion is not superior to another's
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:49:19Z"}, {"author": "Alissa Cooper", "text": "I feel like this is conflating the question of whom you trust to assert UserA's SII->SSI mappings and whom you trust to assert which SSI out of that set is UserA's preferred SSI
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:49:42Z"}, {"author": "Rohan Mahy", "text": "i don't think it was clear which of these problems the WG was trying to solve.
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:50:20Z"}, {"author": "Alissa Cooper", "text": "we absolutely must solve the first one, otherwise we don't have a discovery solution that works
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:50:48Z"}, {"author": "Rohan Mahy", "text": "My position has always been that the first one is completely optional, and the second one is harmful
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:52:24Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "I do actually have a solution to thios
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:54:08Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "this piece
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:54:13Z"}, {"author": "Femi Olumofin", "text": "It is not quite easy to impersonate a user on a different service using the user's SII like phone number. It is more of a problem for diverse ids - SSI.
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:54:16Z"}, {"author": "Watson Ladd", "text": "aren't SSIs inherently immune to service B wanting them?
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:55:37Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "I would suggest for the purposes of this discussion we assume PIR is magic
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:56:33Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "Rather than talking about lattics :)
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:56:47Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "With that said, people might find this useful https://educatedguesswork.org/posts/pir/
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:57:04Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "(which is to say PIR explained entirely with high school math)
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:57:14Z"}, {"author": "Rohan Mahy", "text": "@Ekr, to be clear, I think we can technically solve the second problem.
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:58:40Z"}, {"author": "Rohan Mahy", "text": "1) My concerns are that people often use different services for different contexts. I want to use different services to talk with my colleagues (Wire), to talk to my family (Messages), and to talk to member of my acrobatics troup (WhatsApp).
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:58:41Z"}, {"author": "Rohan Mahy", "text": "2) I fear this will become like the \"Make this my default browser\" wars
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:59:12Z"}, {"author": "Rohan Mahy", "text": "but worse
", "time": "2023-10-10T14:59:20Z"}, {"author": "Rohan Mahy", "text": "I want to use an explicit service. I don't want a default one.
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:00:19Z"}, {"author": "Tim Geoghegan", "text": "In this design, the client has no visibility into the SII->SSI mappings. It gets told by its service frontend what other service to use. So regardless of a preferred service setting, the frontend can just pick a provider based on its own preferences.
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:01:49Z"}, {"author": "Jonathan Rosenberg", "text": "@rohan does this cover your requirements: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-rosenberg-mimi-discovery-reqs-00#name-provider-cardinalities
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:01:55Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "\n", "time": "2023-10-10T15:03:43Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "I want to use an explicit service. I don't want a default one. and nothing stops you from doing it, but that's not what everyone wants
\n
Oops. @Rohan, I know you want an explicit selection, but not everyone wants that
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:04:15Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "@Femi: do you have these numbers in core seconds rather than absolute times?
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:07:30Z"}, {"author": "Tim Geoghegan", "text": "+1 to needing a threat model. Also need to be clear on which actor is trusted to select among multiple providers.
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:15:18Z"}, {"author": "Raphael Robert", "text": "would be good to have a written threat model
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:16:11Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "It's worth noting that in this design, you have to do N queries where N is the number of potential services the person you are talking to might have
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:16:42Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "Which may be fine, but is gonna be pretty expensive if that's a PIR query
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:17:12Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "Another question I would add is whether the shard boundaries are going to change
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:17:28Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "Re: PIR algorithm selection, I think we'd need to send that to CFRG
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:17:47Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "No way should this WG standardize a PIR scheme
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:17:59Z"}, {"author": "Raphael Robert", "text": "yes
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:18:51Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "With that said, I absolutely love PIR :)
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:19:29Z"}, {"author": "Femi Olumofin", "text": "@Eric its core seconds.
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:20:35Z"}, {"author": "Giles Hogben", "text": "The data is already public
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:24:06Z"}, {"author": "Giles Hogben", "text": "+1 I think we need multiple discovery providers but not because of GDPR
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:31:48Z"}, {"author": "Richard Barnes", "text": "+1 Coop -- the unanswered question is whether there are not application providers
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:32:08Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "I feel like this is solved with separating authentication/identity from discovery
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:34:30Z"}, {"author": "Richard Barnes", "text": "@EKR precisely
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:35:24Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "So, I would imagine that in this instance, the big providers are their own CAs
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:35:56Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "the small providers have to use a trusted CA
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:36:04Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "and you can't store records unless you have a valid cert
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:36:15Z"}, {"author": "Richard Barnes", "text": "i'm pretty sure i wrote up exactly this scheme to the list after the last interim
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:36:21Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "you did
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:36:27Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "I'm just amplifying
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:36:33Z"}, {"author": "Richard Barnes", "text": "\"allow me to restate...\"
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:36:36Z"}, {"author": "Richard Barnes", "text": "@ekr i know, it just seems like JDR didn't get that memo
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:37:29Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "PIR solves this problem
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:37:41Z"}, {"author": "Giles Hogben", "text": "+100 to Richard
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:42:17Z"}, {"author": "Femi Olumofin", "text": "+1 a discovery provider that is not a service provider shouldn't have the ability to add/update records.
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:42:52Z"}, {"author": "Giles Hogben", "text": "I don't think the validation process maps to provider
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:54:59Z"}, {"author": "Giles Hogben", "text": "It maps a meatbag to an identifier
", "time": "2023-10-10T15:55:10Z"}, {"author": "Benjamin Beurdouche", "text": "Thanks ! Bye : )
", "time": "2023-10-10T16:02:27Z"}, {"author": "Tim Geoghegan", "text": "Thanks all! Thanks Watson for taking notes.
", "time": "2023-10-10T16:02:32Z"}]