IETF/IEEE 802 Coordination Meeting, 2024-02-16

1. Welcome, roll call, agenda bashing

Present

Martin Duke
Donald Eastlake
Toerless Eckert
Jodi Haasz
Russ Housley
Erik Kline
Dennis Jackson
Mahesh Jethanandani
Mirja Kühlewind
Warren Kumari
Stephen McCann
Cindy Morgan
Glenn Parsons
Dan Romascanu
David Schinazi
Alejandro Sedeño
Dorothy Stanley
Orie Steele
Rob Wilton
Paul Wouters
Éric Vyncke
Juan Carlos Zuniga

2. Action item updates

Done:

New:

3. IETF New Work summary

https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/bofs/

New DNS Delegation (deleg) - Operations and Management Area

The DNS Delegation BOF will discuss better delegation methods for parent
zones. In addition, the BoF will discuss additional capabilities beyond
current NS-style delegation, such as aliasing delegation with other
domain names, delegating DNSSEC management to operators (i.e. DELEG
alias to SVCB containing a DS record), specifying encrypted transports,
and so on.

SRv6 Operations (srv6ops) - Operations and Management Area

The SRv6 Operations BOF will discuss pressing operational issues from
those deploying SRv6 in their networks, explore potential work items and
deliverables for a WG in this space, and discuss a proposed charter for
a dedicated SRv6 Operations Working Group to dive deeper into these
technical challenges and keep SRv6 moving forward.

SCONE-PROTOCL (sconepro) - Web and Internet Transport Area

The SCONE-PROTOCL BOF will continue previous discussions from the
Dispatch session at IETF 117 and a side meeting in January 2024 on
securely communicating network properties.

ALLDISPATCH (alldispatch) - General Area

ALLDISPATCH is an experiment at combining the various Area Dispatch
sessions into one meeting to discuss where to take new work.

Workload Identity in Multi System Environments (wimse) - Applications and Real-Time Area

This is a placeholder for a Working Group that is in the process of
being chartered.

Secure Patterns for Internet CrEdentials (spice) - Security Area

The Secure Patterns for Internet CrEdentials BOF will discuss a
potential charter for a WG to profile existing IETF technologies and
address residual gaps that would enable their use in digital credentials
and presentations.

Detecting Unwanted Location Trackers (dult) - Security Area

This is a placeholder for a Working Group that is in the process of
being chartered.

4. 802 New Work summary

https://ieee802.org/PARs.shtml

802.1ASeb - Amendment: Optional Use of Announce , PAR and CSD

This amendment removes the requirement for all conformant
implementations to include Announce message functionality. Announce
functionality implementation is retained as a conformance option for
backward compatibility and interoperability in application environments
requiring this functionality, and for full conformance to IEEE Std
1588TM-2019. Protocols, procedures, and managed objects are updated if
and as required to reflect the availability and use of Announce.

802.3dm - Amendment: Asymmetrical Electrical Automotive Ethernet, PAR and CSD

This amendment will specify additions to and appropriate modifications
of IEEE Std 802.3 to add Physical Layer specifications and management
parameters for electrical media and operating conditions optimized for
automotive end-node camera links for operation up to 10 Gb/s in one
direction and with a lower data rate in the other direction.

802.11bf - Amendment: Enhancements for Wireless Local Area Network (WLAN) Sensing, PAR modification

This amendment defines modifications to the IEEE 802.11 medium access
control layer (MAC) and to the Directional Multi Gigabit (DMG) and
enhanced DMG (EDMG) PHYs to enhance Wireless Local Area Network (WLAN)
sensing (SENS) operation in license-exempt frequency bands between 1 GHz
and 7.125 GHz and above 45 GHz.

802.11bp - Amendment: Enhancements for Ambient Power Communication (AMP), PAR and CSD

This amendment defines modifications to both the IEEE 802.11 Medium
Access Control layer (MAC) and Physical Layers (PHY) to enable operation
of an Ambient Power communication (AMP) station (STA) that is powered
using energy harvesting. Operation in sub-1 GHz and 2.4 GHz is defined.

5. Review current coordination items

Potential Areas for IETF/IEEE802 Coordination, v43

Item 5. Enabling use of Local Addresses for virtualization and IoT

With the approval of draft-ietf-intarea-rfc7042bis approved for
publication as a BCP, this coordination was closed.

Item 25. Layer 2/Layer 3 Interaction for Time-Sensitive Traffic

Janos Farkas reported via email that draft-ietf-detnet-pof,
draft-ietf-detnet-oam-framework, and draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-oam have
been approved and sent to the RFC Editor.

P802.1Qdv (Enhancements to Cyclic Queuing and Forwarding) is in Task
Group ballot. P802.1DC (QoS Provision by Network Systems) is in SA
ballot.

Item 27. Development of YANG models in the IEEE 802

There has not been any progress toward coming up with a common string
format to represent MAC Addresses in YANG modules. This item will remain
open to track this topic.

Item 33. Capability Discovery

The LSVR WG will be rechartered to include the L3DL work. LSVR and 802.1
TSN should keep each other informed as this work progresses.

Item 34. Reliable and Available Wireless (RAW)

The RAW WG closed in late 2023, and the remaining work was folded into
the DetNet WG. There was no response to requests to review the RAW
architecture document.

Dorothy Stanley said that she believes this item can be closed. There
was a tutorial on RAW at an 802 meeting in 2023, and if further
coordination is needed it can be done at an individual level.

Item 35. MAC Address Device Identification for Network and Application Services (MADINAS)

Juan Carlos Zuniga reported that
draft-ietf-madinas-mac-address-randomization should be sent to the IESG
soon, at which time the MADINAS WG will focus on
draft-ietf-madinas-use-cases.

Dorothy Stanley noted that P802.11bh is close to letter ballot.

6. MASQUE connect-ethernet and IEEE 802

Dennis Jackson said that the MASQUE WG develops protocols for proxying
other protocols, and is currently considering a draft for proxying
Ethernet (draft-ietf-masque-connect-ethernet), which involves IEEE 802.

Glenn Parsons said that from an IEEE 802 perspective, they would be
interested in making sure the frame is defined correctly and that the
right documents are referred to.

When the document is stable (before WG Last Call), the MASQUE WG will
send a liaison statement to IEEE 802.3.

Martin Duke noted that the MASQUE WG will be rechartered to include this
work. Rob Wilton suggested that the ieee-ietf-coord list should be
copied when the charter goes out to External Review.

7. Safe Limited Domains

Warren Kumari reported that he is working on a draft about safe limited
domains (draft-wkumari-intarea-safe-limited-domains):

There is a trend towards documents describing protocols that are only

intended to be used within "limited domains". Unfortunately, these
drafts often do not clearly define how the boundary of the limited
domain is established and enforced, or require that operators of
these limited domains //perfectly// implement filters to protect the

rest of the Internet from these protocols.

In addition, these protocols sometimes require that networks that are

outside of (and unaffiliated with) the limited domain explicitly
implement filters in order to protect their networks if these
protocols leak outside of the limited domain.

This document discusses the concepts of "fail-open" versus "fail-
closed" protocols and limited domains, and provides a mechanism for
designing limited domain protocols that are safer to deploy.

If this draft goes forward, it will require assigning more Ethertypes.
Glenn Parsons noted that the RAC will not assign 4-5 new Ethertypes for
this because they are a finite resource. He suggested looking a
sub-typing if multiple Ethertypes are needed. He suggested reaching out
to RAC Chair Roger Marks for further discussion.

8. RFC 8110 and potentially moving this to IEEE

Warren Kumari reported that there is a discussion about turning change
control for RFC 8110 (Opportunistic Wireless Encryption) over to the
IEEE.

The document that eventually became RFC 8110 was initially proposed in
802.11, but the motion to incorporate the work failed. The work was
taken back to the IETF and published, and is now widely deployed.

Peter Yee (IEEE 802.11/IETF liaison representative) received a request
from IEEE 802.11's maintenance group asking:

Warren Kumari suggested that in order to do this, RFC 8110 should be
made Historic and an 8110bis should be developed in conjunction with
802.11 that explains the change. However, he was not sure whether an
unencumbered technology developed in an open SDO like the IETF be moved
into an SDO with different licensing regime like the IEEE.

Glenn Parsons noted that IETF has transferred change control to the IEEE
before, and pointed to RFC 4663 (Transferring MIB Work from IETF Bridge
MIB WG to IEEE 802.1 WG) as an example.

8. Future meeting plans

There were no pressing topics that would require meeting during IETF
119. The next meeting will be a teleconference sometime around May/June
2024.

9. Adjourn