We are still waiting on some in person attendees to show up
", "time": "2025-04-08T07:18:20Z"}, {"author": "Bryan Newbold", "text": ":wave:
", "time": "2025-04-08T07:18:29Z"}, {"author": "Bryan Newbold", "text": "reasonably well!
", "time": "2025-04-08T07:18:33Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "There is a train strike here in Brussels
", "time": "2025-04-08T07:18:35Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Hi Mike!
", "time": "2025-04-08T07:19:11Z"}, {"author": "Mike Bishop", "text": "Good (early) morning!
", "time": "2025-04-08T07:20:29Z"}, {"author": "Ted Hardie", "text": "Can folks remote hear Mark?
", "time": "2025-04-08T07:22:26Z"}, {"author": "Ted Hardie", "text": "https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2025-aipref-01-aipref is the notes
", "time": "2025-04-08T07:23:21Z"}, {"author": "Mike Bishop", "text": "Mark is clear; the other folks in the room were kind of muddled in the pre-meeting talk. We'll see how that goes.
", "time": "2025-04-08T07:25:11Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "We have some challenges with feedback Mike and this is what we arrived after a bunch of fiddling
", "time": "2025-04-08T07:26:23Z"}, {"author": "Martin Thomson", "text": "I think that we'll have to project when we speak in order to make it clear for those of you who are remote.
", "time": "2025-04-08T07:26:25Z"}, {"author": "\u00c9ric Vyncke", "text": "And of course, adopted documents MUST fit the WG charter ;-)
", "time": "2025-04-08T07:39:03Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/aipref/about/
", "time": "2025-04-08T07:42:05Z"}, {"author": "\u00c9ric Vyncke", "text": "For the IESG evaluation https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/statement-iesg-discuss-criteria-in-iesg-review-20140507/ and Suresh's point on DISCUSS
", "time": "2025-04-08T07:52:03Z"}, {"author": "Alissa Cooper", "text": "Who spoke after Leonard? Trying to learn the sound of people's voices.
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:24:01Z"}, {"author": "\u00c9ric Vyncke", "text": "Let me check
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:26:27Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Timid Robot
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:26:36Z"}, {"author": "Alissa Cooper", "text": "ty
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:26:44Z"}, {"author": "\u00c9ric Vyncke", "text": "Zetha
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:26:48Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "That's Bradley responding to Mirja
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:31:01Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "That's Matt
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:31:32Z"}, {"author": "Farzaneh", "text": "I think we have to focus on a narrow technical set of vocab here that standardizes \"how technically\" operators can signal their preferences. we can't accommodate all the preferences and some of the content stuff might not even be related to IETF and might have to be discussed at W3C and other places. we have to refrain from making policy here.
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:34:03Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Ted, Paul, Glenn, Joseph, Sonia
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:34:35Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Sonia, Sebastian, Martin
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:41:44Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Martin, Timid, Mirja
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:43:47Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Timid, Mirja, Matt
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:44:43Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Timid, Mirja, Matt, Glenn
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:45:33Z"}, {"author": "Farzaneh", "text": "I think coming up with a narrow set of vocab by August would be very helpful and totally agree with Martin that we should see what has been proposed so far and start from there
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:46:30Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "That's Ted responding to Matt
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:48:55Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Glenn, Gary
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:50:29Z"}, {"author": "Jari Arkko", "text": "This is just a side note on tech's proposal, so just noting it on the chat. There's obviously many possible levels of \"acknowledgment\". Ted's proposal is about proving you saw the policy. One could also imagine a system where you can inform web site that you're accessing content based on a particular usage (e.g., \"research\")
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:52:19Z"}, {"author": "Jari Arkko", "text": "I.e., not proving just informing.
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:52:37Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "@Jari, I think Ted's proposal had aspects of both
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:53:31Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "i.e. a nonce per sub clause that would do both
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:53:50Z"}, {"author": "Jari Arkko", "text": "Right. Just making the point that there's a design space here, not just one solution (if we want to go there)
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:54:36Z"}, {"author": "Farzaneh", "text": "I think that's Glenn talking. in relation to \"creator needs control\" I just don't think we are here to provide \"compliance\" or \"enforcement\" mechanisms. That goes to the territories of policy which IETF doesn't do. we are here to standardize the vocab so that the crawlers and AI bots understand the preferences
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:54:44Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Thanks Jari. Makes sense
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:54:55Z"}, {"author": "Alissa Cooper", "text": "+1 Farz and Mark
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:55:08Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Bradley, Paul
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:56:11Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Paul, Ted, Matt, Timid, Bryan
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:57:29Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue will be closed after Bryan
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:57:52Z"}, {"author": "Alissa Cooper", "text": "I don't think we can change how anyone will legally interpret the absence of a signal by writing down what the absence of a signal means.
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:59:25Z"}, {"author": "Alissa Cooper", "text": "in an RFC
", "time": "2025-04-08T08:59:34Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "@Alissa, hard agree.
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:00:10Z"}, {"author": "Sebastian Posth", "text": "+1
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:00:16Z"}, {"author": "\u00c9ric Vyncke", "text": "+1
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:01:02Z"}, {"author": "Piers O'Hanlon", "text": "+1
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:01:32Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Reopened Queue: Matt, Timid, Bryan, Mirja, Hiro
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:03:49Z"}, {"author": "Martin Thomson", "text": "The XMPP capability negotiation stuff really works out for Ted's idea...
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:07:00Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Bryan, Mirja, Hiro, Alissa
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:08:18Z"}, {"author": "Farzaneh", "text": "I also think we should not move to the content regulation territories
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:11:08Z"}, {"author": "Bryan Newbold", "text": "will look, thanks
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:11:08Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Hiro, Alissa, Fabrice
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:11:19Z"}, {"author": "Martin Thomson", "text": "@Bryan Newbold are you still in queue?
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:11:27Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Alissa, Fabrice, Glenn
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:11:59Z"}, {"author": "Glenn Deen", "text": "to be clear, i'm not encouraging the IETF to work on enforcement - that's clearly out of scope. Especially for the IETF.
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:12:23Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Fabrice, Glenn, Martin
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:12:59Z"}, {"author": "Martin Thomson", "text": "there are protocol police, you just don't like what the consequences of their actions might be
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:13:05Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Fabrice, Glenn, Martin, Farz
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:13:51Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Martin, Farz, Timid
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:18:40Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Farz, Timid, Fabrice
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:18:55Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Farz, Timid, Fabrice, Leonard
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:20:43Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Timid, Fabrice, Leonard, Cullen
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:23:57Z"}, {"author": "Martin Thomson", "text": "Trying to protect against misuse would be pure folly :)
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:26:17Z"}, {"author": "Alissa Cooper", "text": "Also I said \"good faith\" actors. :-) Some of the comments seem to indicate a desire to use these signals for control, which we already know is not feasible (look at all the entities ignoring robots.txt today). We will design something different if we think this toolset can be used for control rather than to empower good faith actors to communicate and respect preferences.
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:27:49Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Fabrice, Leonard, Cullen, Paul
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:27:50Z"}, {"author": "Farzaneh", "text": "+1 Timid. this is why I dont think the site operators or whoever is signaling should be called Rightsholder
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:27:56Z"}, {"author": "Mark Nottingham", "text": "It's important to capture that a stated preference does not convey a legal right.
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:28:47Z"}, {"author": "Farzaneh", "text": "+1 Alissa. I think we have been focusing too much on control and not much on empowering ( I mean in general)
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:29:11Z"}, {"author": "Alissa Cooper", "text": "Mark - maybe it will in some jurisdiction! But it's not for us to decide.
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:29:37Z"}, {"author": "\u00c9ric Vyncke", "text": "After all the WG is \"ai-pref\" and not \"ai-control\", so it should be clear
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:30:55Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Glenn
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:32:36Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Glenn, Alissa
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:33:23Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Leonard
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:37:16Z"}, {"author": "Jari Arkko", "text": "+1 on Alissa's point on research & things being available throughout difference regions
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:37:38Z"}, {"author": "Sebastian Posth", "text": "Should the AI preferences only work for web publishers? \u2013 In my understanding the vocabulary has to work also for content on websites where the creator or rightsholder do not control the domain (asset-bound preferences)
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:38:17Z"}, {"author": "Farzaneh", "text": "I think Gary's idea of \"code of conduct\" adherence is a good one that gives the tool to the crawlers to signal their good faith. and I think thats a good thing but then we have to also think about those good faith crawlers that don't want to be identified. How can they signal their good faith (just noting that we dont have to and we probably will not come up with solutions for this at the IETF , just flagging a problem
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:38:36Z"}, {"author": "Mark Nottingham", "text": "Sebastian: yes that concern has been raised a few times.
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:38:40Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Martin
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:40:19Z"}, {"author": "Farzaneh", "text": "should the crawlers be enabled to say why they are not following the signals?
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:40:20Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Martin, Jari, Leonard
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:44:33Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Jari, Leonard, Ted, Joseph
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:46:39Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Jari, Leonard, Ted, Joseph, Paul
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:47:34Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Jari, Leonard, Ted, Joseph, Paul, Timid
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:49:44Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Jari, Leonard, Ted, Joseph, Paul, Timid, Matt
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:50:07Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "Queue: Jari, Leonard, Ted, Joseph, Paul, Timid, Matt, Bradley
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:50:27Z"}, {"author": "Martin Thomson", "text": "This seems rathole-shaped.
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:50:37Z"}, {"author": "\u00c9ric Vyncke", "text": "Indeed... let's try not to boil the ocean either
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:51:15Z"}, {"author": "Martin Thomson", "text": "I can understand a chain: producer > distributor > consumer in which all apply their preferences.
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:52:24Z"}, {"author": "Martin Thomson", "text": "Strictest policy wins is the only sensible strategy I can conceive of.
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:52:45Z"}, {"author": "Martin Thomson", "text": "Obviously, if a producer has conflicting views to a distributor, then they can work this out between them to ensure that the right thing happens.
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:53:28Z"}, {"author": "\u00c9ric Vyncke", "text": "The charter has \"A standard method for reconciling multiple expressions of preferences.\" as a work item
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:54:08Z"}, {"author": "\u00c9ric Vyncke", "text": "and the above is not for Aug 2025
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:54:40Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2025-aipref-01-aipref
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:55:22Z"}, {"author": "Bryan Newbold", "text": "getting very later here for me, but plan to join again tomorrow morning (your time)
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:56:25Z"}, {"author": "Suresh Krishnan", "text": "https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/interim/?group=741e2e6b-42aa-4307-9b69-252fa0e58c6e
", "time": "2025-04-08T09:57:00Z"}]