I understand that we're upset about having to do this work. I don't think we need to reiterate how upset we are EVERY TIME we have this discussion. It wastes 5-10m each time.
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:08:21Z"}, {"author": "Christian Ams\u00fcss", "text": "+1; Carsten, please focus on open issues and not how we got there.
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:10:15Z"}, {"author": "Rohan Mahy", "text": "+1
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:12:11Z"}, {"author": "Michael Richardson", "text": "(I am getting no audio after much debugging on phone. I guess it's me, but speaker test works)
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:16:15Z"}, {"author": "Joe Hildebrand", "text": "I'm hearing audio
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:16:27Z"}, {"author": "Christian Ams\u00fcss", "text": "Sounds fine for me.
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:16:30Z"}, {"author": "Rohan Mahy", "text": "I don't find the ABNF abovefor app-sequences to be any easier or harder than app-strings.
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:17:39Z"}, {"author": "Christian Ams\u00fcss", "text": "AIU it's not about being easier or harder, it's just a tad more powerful, and illustrates why the '' after app should not be different from any other ''
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:20:13Z"}, {"author": "\u0412\u0430\u0434\u0438\u043c \u0413\u043e\u043d\u0447\u0430\u0440\u043e\u0432", "text": "hash is just simple to implement
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:23:23Z"}, {"author": "\u0412\u0430\u0434\u0438\u043c \u0413\u043e\u043d\u0447\u0430\u0440\u043e\u0432", "text": "hash is not a good example otherwise
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:23:49Z"}, {"author": "\u0412\u0430\u0434\u0438\u043c \u0413\u043e\u043d\u0447\u0430\u0440\u043e\u0432", "text": "don't judge it by hash
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:25:08Z"}, {"author": "\u0412\u0430\u0434\u0438\u043c \u0413\u043e\u043d\u0447\u0430\u0440\u043e\u0432", "text": "what about e.g. SQL literal?
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:25:49Z"}, {"author": "Rohan Mahy", "text": "Vadim, can you provide a concrete example please
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:26:23Z"}, {"author": "\u0412\u0430\u0434\u0438\u043c \u0413\u043e\u043d\u0447\u0430\u0440\u043e\u0432", "text": "you'll have to escape SQL's chars ' < etc
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:27:33Z"}, {"author": "\u0412\u0430\u0434\u0438\u043c \u0413\u043e\u043d\u0447\u0430\u0440\u043e\u0432", "text": "so <<>> is better
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:27:58Z"}, {"author": "Rohan Mahy", "text": "@Vadim, that isn't an example.
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:29:06Z"}, {"author": "\u0412\u0430\u0434\u0438\u043c \u0413\u043e\u043d\u0447\u0430\u0440\u043e\u0432", "text": "Did you have experience with backend programming?
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:30:31Z"}, {"author": "Rohan Mahy", "text": "yes
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:31:12Z"}, {"author": "\u0412\u0430\u0434\u0438\u043c \u0413\u043e\u043d\u0447\u0430\u0440\u043e\u0432", "text": "then you must have experienced escaping grief in practice, and we don't want repeat it in EDN
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:32:48Z"}, {"author": "Rohan Mahy", "text": "so, it should not be hard to show a concrete example
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:33:05Z"}, {"author": "\u0412\u0430\u0434\u0438\u043c \u0413\u043e\u043d\u0447\u0430\u0440\u043e\u0432", "text": "trust an intuition of programmer
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:33:15Z"}, {"author": "\u0412\u0430\u0434\u0438\u043c \u0413\u043e\u043d\u0447\u0430\u0440\u043e\u0432", "text": "but it hard to type it on android
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:33:33Z"}, {"author": "Rohan Mahy", "text": "why can't you provide a real example?
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:33:39Z"}, {"author": "\u0412\u0430\u0434\u0438\u043c \u0413\u043e\u043d\u0447\u0430\u0440\u043e\u0432", "text": "you speaking too fast I dont understand all words
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:34:29Z"}, {"author": "Michael Richardson", "text": "Michael Richardson said:
\n\n\n(I am getting no audio after much debugging on phone. I guess it's me, but speaker test works)
\n
Back at home office... gave up AC for audio.
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:36:09Z"}, {"author": "Christian Ams\u00fcss", "text": "Your sacrifice is appreciated.
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:36:27Z"}, {"author": "Michael Richardson", "text": "+1 Rohan.
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:36:55Z"}, {"author": "\u0412\u0430\u0434\u0438\u043c \u0413\u043e\u043d\u0447\u0430\u0440\u043e\u0432", "text": "in short, I want qq{} from Perl
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:38:20Z"}, {"author": "Joe Hildebrand", "text": "Vadim, your SQL example might be useful. All that asking for is a full example that shows what you mean, so that we make sure that we are understanding what you are saying.
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:38:50Z"}, {"author": "\u0412\u0430\u0434\u0438\u043c \u0413\u043e\u043d\u0447\u0430\u0440\u043e\u0432", "text": "mb later onn= ml?
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:39:05Z"}, {"author": "Joe Hildebrand", "text": "(all that Rohan is asking for)
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:39:07Z"}, {"author": "Joe Hildebrand", "text": "yes, on mailing list.
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:39:15Z"}, {"author": "Joe Hildebrand", "text": "Just a short message with the example.
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:39:24Z"}, {"author": "Joe Hildebrand", "text": "Lang-tag is #38.
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:41:12Z"}, {"author": "Joe Hildebrand", "text": "Set (#258) is a pretty good example.
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:41:47Z"}, {"author": "Christian Ams\u00fcss", "text": "lang<<\"Servus Welt\", \"de_AT\">> vs. lang'\"Servus Welt\"@de_AT'. all the arrays. tag 256 set<<1, 2, 99>>. tag 280 symbol'thesymbol' but also symbol<<\"the-package\", \"thesymbol\">>.
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:41:57Z"}, {"author": "Carsten Bormann", "text": "https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2025-cbor-12-cbor?both
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:42:07Z"}, {"author": "Rohan Mahy", "text": "I got that you like qq{}. But can you show an example app-sequence string that actually uses that, doesn't need any other new syntax, and returns some useful CBOR.
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:42:15Z"}, {"author": "Joe Hildebrand", "text": "set<<1, 2, \"foo\">> is pretty nice.
sent very short to ml
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:42:51Z"}, {"author": "Joe Hildebrand", "text": "That would generate new Set([1, 2, \"foo\"]) in JS.
Vadim, look at the ABNF:
\napp-sequence = app-prefix \"<<\" seq \">>\"
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:46:12Z"}, {"author": "Joe Hildebrand", "text": "So... vadim might be making Rohan's point here...
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:47:01Z"}, {"author": "Michael Richardson", "text": "I would like more detail about which users want this, and exactly what problem they are solving.
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:47:40Z"}, {"author": "Christian Ams\u00fcss", "text": "RM: It's 38([\"Sevus Welt\", \"de_AT\"]) / D826826A53657675732057656C746564655F4154
got it. so the advantage of lang<<string, land>> is that you don't need to remember the number 38?
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:49:14Z"}, {"author": "Christian Ams\u00fcss", "text": "yes. it's not much benefit otherwise (same with set, but not with the arrays)
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:49:33Z"}, {"author": "Rohan Mahy", "text": "versus something like: e'lang-tag'([\"Servus Welt\", \"de_AT\"]) (not currently legal syntax)
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:50:11Z"}, {"author": "Christian Ams\u00fcss", "text": "with the arrays, there's really no more readable verison other than 80('0100 / 1.0 / 020f / 2.0 ...').
The approach that I had thought of for vadim's use case was the quoting approach from markdown or heredocs, where you could specify a terminator in the beginning of the app-string. For example:
\njs'''console.log('foo');'''
\nIt's ugly.
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:50:50Z"}, {"author": "\u0412\u0430\u0434\u0438\u043c \u0413\u043e\u043d\u0447\u0430\u0440\u043e\u0432", "text": "well, heredoc could be alternative...
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:51:46Z"}, {"author": "Rohan Mahy", "text": "thanks!
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:56:55Z"}, {"author": "Martine Lenders", "text": "Thanks, bye!
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:57:04Z"}, {"author": "Joe Hildebrand", "text": "Thanks!
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:57:09Z"}, {"author": "Marco Tiloca", "text": "Thanks bye bye
", "time": "2025-06-25T14:57:12Z"}]