Minutes IETF124: nfsv4
minutes-124-nfsv4-00

NFSv4 IETF-124 Montreal
Agenda v1
2025-11-07 11:30 - 13:00
Minutes v0.1 (need to update with transcript and AI generated minutes)

o Chairs Update

Note well noted.

Chris wants to refresh I18N draft - normative text appears in Appendix. Bring the normative text into main document and

Haynes says the uncacheable draft -00 was submitted. Haynes wants to bring in the base document and then split it into two documents as previously discussed. Chairs missed the doc, will correct and allow Tom to split and address Dave's detailed comments.

Chuck has submitted two updates. And Chuck wants to do a last call on ACL document.

Dave has acked for an adoption call for 5662-bis.Need to do that.

Erasure coding cannot be done without FlexFiles update.

o ACL drafts - chairs

Chuck believes the three ACL drafts are complementary. Christoph questions the need for the NFSv4 ACLs doc in light of the POSIX document. Chuck's document describes current practice in NFS Version 3. Christoph and Dave disagreed on whether complementary - Dave observed that his document is 4.1 targeted, POSIX ACLs is new work. Rick says if we want to mod the V4(.1) ACLS we need to get the Windows and MacOS people involved. Christoph asked if MacOS is actively being developed. MacOS, Rick noted, recently updated the NFS implementation for MacOS to support v4.1. (begs the question who is testing interoperability where - Bakeathon?) There are no objections to adopting Chuck's draft? The v3 work is not standards track (as it is not under IETF control). Rick summarized that Chuck's document is targeted at NFS Version 3, and Rick's work is related to it as it describes the POSIX style ACLs

o Erasure Coding (aka FlexFiles) - Haynes

Feedback from Madrid. (check transcript).

Christoph wants to uderstand how to prevent multiple writers from overlapping writres. Christoph asked if layout ranges were useful here.

Discussion on overlapping chunks. We are not trying to make arbitrary writes atomic, David Black summarized. Haynes agreed - we want to get it good enough. Detailed discussion in transcript - but Tom summarized he doesn't care who wins. Christoph asked what happens in face of network partitions? Tom says we need to be able to "roll back". David Black jumped in - we only care about "RAID consistency" not write ordering and application data consistency. Tom to look into Christoph's concerns and get back to mail list. (Tom says must update the slide description)

Guarded WRITE is based on Guarded SETATTR in V3.

Christoph is concerned with the "fail safe" buffer. Christoph believes the non-commited data should not be visible globally - how to bound the shared state/view.

All discussion to be followed up on the mail list.

o 8881bis - Noveck

Dave recapitulated the motivations for NFS v4.1-bis. Big one is SESSIONS as implemented does not follow specification - needs to be addressed.

Two slides summarize -bis fixes/progress so far.

Problems are: Limited working group review of documents. And document advance through WG process.

Rick is asking for a structured section by section walkthrough. Maybe resurrect interim meetings.

(refer to transcript)

o AOB

Gorry (AD) raised question as to how we execute review end game, and ensure we cover document to get working group consensus. Gorry made a call to use tools like github to manage the final reviews.

Chris asks how should we approach review. The chairs can enable the work - looking for feedback for the approach to review. Gorry proposed an interim for December and one for January. Rick would be interested in reviewing directory delegations. Rick suggests we throw a net to the NFS implementation forums to get them involved in the reviews.

Materials:

Onsite tool: https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/onsite124/?session=34806

Meetecho: https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/ietf124/?session=34806

Session materials: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/124/session/nfsv4

See in schedule: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/124/agenda#row-124-2025-11-07-fri-1630-wit-nfsv4

Agenda https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/124/materials/agenda-124-nfsv4-00