Minutes IETF100: dnssd
minutes-100-dnssd-00

DNSSD WG Agenda

IETF100, Singapore
Wednesday, November 15, 2017
9:30-12:00 Local Time
Canning Room

Chairs: David Schinazi, Tim Wicinski (sitting in for Tim Chown)
Minutes: Barbara Stark, Bjoern Metzdorf
Jabber: Mikael Abrahamsson

Chairs' Introduction                                                          
Chairs, 5 mins

Report on the Last Call for draft-ietf-dnssd-hybrid                           
Stuart Cheshire, 10 mins
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dnssd-hybrid

Update on draft-ietf-dnssd-push and draft-ietf-dnsop-session-signal           
Stuart Cheshire, 20 mins
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dnssd-push
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dnsop-session-signal (dnsop)

Update on documents created before IETF 99                                    
Stuart Cheshire, 20 mins
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cheshire-dnssd-roadmap
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sctl-service-registration
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sctl-discovery-broker
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sctl-dnssd-mdns-relay

Report on the DNSSD testing at the IETF 100 Hackathon                         
Stuart Cheshire, 15 mins

draft-ietf-homenet-simple-naming                                              
Ted Lemon, 30 mins
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-homenet-simple-naming

draft-eckert-anima-grasp-dnssd                                                
Toerless Eckert, 15 mins
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-eckert-anima-grasp-dnssd

DNS-SD Privacy drafts                                                         
Stuart Cheshire, 30 mins
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dnssd-privacy
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dnssd-pairing
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dnssd-pairing-info
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cheshire-dnssd-privacy-considerations

Chairs' Conclusion                                                            
Chairs, 5 mins

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Chair Slides
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-dnssd-00-chairs-intro/
David presented the slides.
Round of applause from the room to thank Ralph for his years of service as
chair. Agenda was not bashed.

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Report on the Last Call for draft-ietf-dnssd-hybrid
Update on draft-ietf-dnssd-push and draft-ietf-dnsop-session-signal
Update on documents created before IETF 99
Report on the DNSSD testing at the IETF 100 Hackathon
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-dnssd-01-stuart-doc-status/
Stuart Cheshire presented.

There were no comments related to any of the status provided. It was noted this
was a very fast 65 minutes of scheduled discussion, since it only lasted about
10 minutes.

--------------------------------------------------
draft-ietf-homenet-simple-naming
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-dnssd-02-ted-homenet/
Ted Lemon presented.

Toerless Eckert: Is there any insight that homenet might help to get more
adoption of DNSSD? Stuart Cheshire / Ted: There may be some deployments
happening. Stuart: Cautiously optimistic. Anecdotal evidence in Stuart's home
shows adoption of multicast DNS. Toerless: The examples Stuart was giving
aren't relevant to homenet specifically driving adoption. They would happen
without homenet. Ted: Homenet is trying to make sure DNSSD works reliably in a
home network. Mikael Abrahamsson: What homenet has is no professional
management, and it's trying to define how devices trust each other in this
unmanaged environmnent. Stuart: Homenet works in more than one way. There are
many different physical layer technologies in use. There is a need for relays
and proxies in gateways. But we need the capabilities defined so they can exist
even if some gateways don't get updated.

Link to source code of dnssd relay implementation:
https://github.com/Abhayakara/dnssd-lite

Note that the work that was done on Saturday and Sunday hasn't been committed
to the repo yet; I will do that before I leave Singapore, but might not be
until Friday, because we had a hard stop and the code doesn't compile at the
moment.

----------------------------------------------------
draft-eckert-anima-grasp-dnssd
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-100-dnssd-03-toerless-grasp/
Toerless Eckert presented.
Toerless mentioned that a new updated set of slides will be uploaded in half an
hour.

Mikael channeled jabber room: <ran.atkinson> mic:  Slide 2 is unclear.  Are
they saying link-local multicast is not available ? or merely that there is no
multicast forwarding off-link. Toerless provided an answer which ran did not
think answered the question: <ran.atkinson> mic: did not answer the question. 
Is link-local multicast available or not ? <ran.atkinson> mic: if link-local
multicast is not available, how does IPv6 ND work ? Brian Carpenter: Stuart: It
would be helpful if you could provide some background as to what types of
devices are these? How are they connected? 802.15.4? Toerless: Anima was
designed to be a well-managed network. Stuart: When you're talking about
well-managed, are we talking about really expensive routers? Toerless: Yes.
Toerless and Stuart then proceeded to have a discussion to try to better
understand anima and how it differs from homenet. Brian: Anima is for the
"Plug-n-play" enterprise. This may help as background for Toerless's talk in
progress: https://github.com/becarpenter/graspy/blob/master/AN-overview.pdf

Back to the slides. Toerless picked up going through the slides again at this
point, starting with slide 4.

Stuart: Offer, Discover and Use are the 3 basic operations provided by dns-sd.
Stuart: Having service instance names as a unique identifier should not be
optional. They are designed for machine consumption, as well. If you don't use
service names, then you need another hidden identifier. Toerless: Are
"host-names" actually needed? Stuart: Host-names were basically inherited from
the DNS SRV record format and are helpful if a device has multiple interfaces
with multiple addresses, even across address families. Did not want to
re-invent SRV records.

Toerless resumes the presentation (slide 5).

Stuart: Thanks Toerless for the presentation and expresses gratitude that anima
adopted the same IANA registry values. Brian Carpenter: GRASP will in addition
need its own IANA namespace for its own specific purposes.

----------------------------------------------------
DNS-SD Privacy drafts
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-dnssd-04-stuart-privacy/
Stuart Cheshire presented.

Dave Robin: Do message lengths also reveal information? Do we need to add
padding/randomness or something similar like other protocols do? Mikael: Could
you provide examples to the email list? Stuart: Examples are not in the draft
right now. David Schinazi: Should we be looking into privacy? It sounds like we
should. Ted Lemon: We should probably ask for a hum to see what people think.
Tim Wicinski: The only doc not yet adopted is
draft-cheshire-dnssd-privacy-considerations. Stuart: The authors of the other
drafts said they would be ok to put some of the work on hold while we get more
discussion. Aanchal Malhotra: Do the current drafts meet the goals for privacy?
Stuart: I think they do not. Dave Thaler: Section 2 of the DNSSD privacy draft
proves that this is interesting. Should the privacy considerations be put into
their own document? Section 2 might not be sufficiently covering the subject of
privacy. Alp Toker : Human rights issues are also important to consider here.
Stuart agrees.

David Schinazi: Should we be spending more time on privacy requirements?
Humming is in favor of "yes". There were no hums against.
Andrew: The humming for spending time was not very loud, so it would be good to
know who is willing to work on it. Ted Lemon, Bernard Wolz, Andrew Sullivan,
Alp Toker, Aanchal Malhotra raised their hands to volunteer to help work on
this.

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Chair's Conclusion
David summarized the meeting.
Stuart: We would like to do work at the hackathon again in London and would
like more people.