Minutes IETF109: nmrg
minutes-109-nmrg-00

Meeting Minutes Network Management (nmrg) RG Snapshot
Title Minutes IETF109: nmrg
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Last updated 2020-11-20

Meeting Minutes
minutes-109-nmrg

**NMRG 59th meeting
IETF 109, Online**

Thursday, November 19, 2020, 16:00-18:00 (UTC+7), Room 3
iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/session/28373.ics

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RG Chairs:
* Laurent Ciavaglia
* Jéröme François

RG Secretaries
* Jéferson Campos Nobre
* Pedro Martinez-Julia

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**Useful links:**
    Materials: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/session/nmrg
    Meetecho:
    https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/ietf109/?group=nmrg&short=&item=1
    Notes: https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-109-nmrg Audio recording:
    https://www.ietf.org/audio/ietf109/ Video recording:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/ietf/playlists

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**Agenda:
Part 1: Intent-based Networking (55 min.)**
- Status on active Internet Drafts
    - Concepts and Definitions (in RG last call), Laurent Ciavaglia, 5 min. + 5
    min. Q&A
          https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-nmrg-ibn-concepts-definitions
          - Intent Classification, Olga Havel 5 min. + 5 min. Q&A
          https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-nmrg-ibn-intent-classification
        - Transport Slice Intent, Luis Contreras, 5 min. + 5 min. Q&A
          https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-contreras-nmrg-transport-slice-intent
        - Network Measurement Intent, Danyang Chen 5 min. + 5 min. Q&A
          https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yang-nmrg-network-measurement-intent

- (cancelled) Use cases discussion 15 min.

**Part 2: AI for Network Management (40 min.)**
- AI for Network and Service Automation: Standardization Enablers and Research
Directions, Laurent Ciavaglia, 15 min. + 5 min. Q&A - Status of the
document on Research Challenges in Artificial Intelligence for Network
Management, Jérôme François, 10 min. + 10 min. Q&A
  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dQOzZustI2mkYr_omtiqu3FqUvoqLgaCp7nbRj4ZJyw/edit?usp=sharing

**Part 3: Scouting/other topics (25 min.)**
- Multilevel configuration, Luis Contreras 10 min. + 5 min. Q&A
  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bogdanovic-multilevel-configuration

- Update on Concepts of Digital Twin Network, Cheng Zhou, 5 min. + 5 min.
Q&A
  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhou-nmrg-digitaltwin-network-concepts

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**Notes**
Participants: ~45

##
Agenda bashing & RG news
- Slides:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/materials/slides-109-nmrg-chairs-slides-03.pdf
  Agenda updates: IBN use cases discussion shifted to mailing and future
  interim meeting.

##
Part 1: Intent-based Networking (55 min.)**
- 16:12/16:19 - Concepts and Definitions (in RG last call), Laurent Ciavaglia,
5 min. + 5 min. Q&A
        Slides:
        https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/materials/slides-109-nmrg-ibn-concepts-and-definitions-00.pdf
    Draft:
    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-nmrg-ibn-concepts-definitions
    Q&A: Jerome: general positive feedback received. Depending on the level
    of modifications, last call might be necessary Laurent: some detailed
    reviews need some effort to be addressed Jerome: review received from
    external readers are good as this document will set the notions and
    concepts we want to develop in the group, so important to have this clear
    Next steps: new version in the coming 2-3 weeks. Then depending on
    importance of revisions, may need to go through a 2nd RG last call.

- 16:24/16:39 - Intent Classification, Chen Li 5 min. + 5 min. Q&A
    Slides:
    https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/materials/slides-109-nmrg-intent-classification-01.pdf
    Draft:
    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-nmrg-ibn-intent-classification
    Q&A: Laurent: do you have additional aspects to bring to the draft or
    do you consider the scope complete? (no answer) Guanggying Zheng: other SDO
    groups also working on intent classification. Could be interesting to
    consider. Chen: we will consider.

- 16:39/16:50 - Transport Slice Intent, Luis Contreras, 5 min. + 5 min. Q&A
        Slides:
        https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/materials/slides-109-nmrg-transport-slice-intent-00.pdf
    Draft:
    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-contreras-nmrg-transport-slice-intent
    Q&A: Laurent: a bit surprised by the new terminology: "IETF Network
    slice"; thought IETF Network is the actual network deployed for IET
    meetings ;) Luis: agree on the terminology confusion, we'll check for
    another title. also a bit uncomfortable with the new terminology. keep it
    this way for the moment as it is the consensus reached in TEAS. For the
    scope, pros and cons. Pros (to enlarge the scope): more comprehensive.
    cons: keep good alignment with TES and concrete progress being made there
    on IETF Network Slicing. Laurent: scope aligned with IETF technologies but
    will you be open to consider broadening the scope beyond only IETF Network
    / transport slice intent? e.g. Amina was also proposing to study Network
    slice intent life-cycle. Or else, consider that the elements developed in
    the draft could also be applicable for other technologies, such as defined
    in other SDOs, than IETF Network TEAS? Luis: open but keep mostly aligned
    with IETF to have a solid "story" Jerome: clarify position regarding
    adoption Luis: once the template for ue case is defined, we can better
    align our draft to make it solid and ask for adoption.

- 16:50/17:05 - Network Measurement Intent, Danyang Chen 5 min. + 5 min. Q&A
        Slides:
        https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/materials/slides-109-nmrg-network-measurement-intent-01.pdf
    Draft:
    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yang-nmrg-network-measurement-intent
    Q&aA: Laurent: interesting proposal. Seems to mix several aspects, so
    would need clarifications. Willing to work/provide comments. as a
    customer/operator you may be interested in getting measurement + detect if
    a measurement fulfills the intent + detect if there is a deviation from
    what is expected -> multiple aspects with good potential but this need
    to be clarified (where are the intents, where are the other
    functionalities...) Diego: agree with Laurent. (something was said by
    Diego...) Chen: we will clarify.

- (canceled) Use cases discussion

##
**Part 2: AI for Network Management (40 min.)**

- 17:05/17:32 - AI for Network and Service Automation: Standards Enablers and
Research Directions, Laurent Ciavaglia, 15 min. + 5 min. Q&A
    Slides:
    https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/materials/slides-109-nmrg-ai-for-network-and-service-automation-standards-enablers-and-research-directions-00.pdf
    Q&A: Jérôme: interesting content, worth digging further, and having
    more time to discuss. Continue discussion in dedicated interim meeting, and
    off-line.

- 17:32/17:41 - Status of the document on Research Challenges in Artificial
Intelligence for Network Management, Jérôme François, 10 min. + 10 min. Q&A
    Slides:
    https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/materials/slides-109-nmrg-status-of-the-document-on-research-challenges-in-artificial-intelligence-for-network-management-00.pdf
    Document:
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dQOzZustI2mkYr_omtiqu3FqUvoqLgaCp7nbRj4ZJyw/edit?usp=sharing
    No comments. Offline due to lack of time.

##
**Part 3: Scouting/other topics (25 min.)**
- 17:41/17: - Multilevel configuration, Luis Contreras 10 min. + 5 min. Q&A
  Slides:
  https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/materials/slides-109-nmrg-multilevel-configuration-00.pdf
  Draft:
  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bogdanovic-multilevel-configuration
  Q&A: Robert: present in NETMOD. Aware of NMDA. Dean: NMDA not sufficient.
  Not only access control, need to be seen fully as a separate user.

- 17:50 - Update on Concepts of Digital Twin Network, Cheng Zhou, 5 min. + 5
min. Q&A
  Slides:
  https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/materials/slides-109-nmrg-update-on-concepts-of-digital-twin-network-01.pdf
  Draft:
  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhou-nmrg-digitaltwin-network-concepts
  Comments off-line due to lack of time.