Minutes IETF97: hrpc
minutes-97-hrpc-00

2016-11-14 09:31:48+0900
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HRPC meeting at IETF 97, Seoul
Niels ten Oever and Avri Doria chairing
Stephen Bortzmeyer Jabber scribing
dkg taking notes

Avri asks early for AOB, but sees no takers

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-hrpc-research will have a long last call
in order to do further outrech to human rights professional dand academics.

Tt's been shopped around to other people -- academics, IGF, etc.

A film resulting from interviews is available at https://hrpc.io/

----- Issues on the draft were discussed including:
"Anonymity"

Some discussion about the idea that anonymity is difficult to achieve nd that
the discussion in the draft does not capture the full subtlety of the issue.

Niels offers to add information about the idea that anonymity might not be
binary

Andrew Sullivan: maybe we need some more text that says "look, these are all
traded off and perfection may not be achievable"

-----
"protocols are political"

Andrew Sullivan argues that many people say that protocols are not
political, and that the document would be better to state "protocols
are political" as an axiom.

Paul Wilson says that the existing statements that protocols are
political might be misused in some ways.

Unresolved, but it sounds like this is going to be a larger discussion.

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I18n

Andrew Sullivan says that this document appears to be in conflict with
the IAB's traditional guidance.

Stephane Bortzmeyer says that the draft can say that the IAB choices
that have been made have political choices.

Andrew Sullivan: I can accept Stephane's view.

Stephen Farrell suggests that the doc should explicitly state that it's going
beyond IETF consensus on this one, but that it's fine to keep it that way.

-----
Avri expressed personal misgiving about the new arrangement of the draft with
the model up front before the discussion that explains the basis.  But as
document shepherd was relying on the group to decide.

Andrew Sullivan likes the rearrangement of the document in -04.
As did Stephen Farrell.

-----

Avri will open Research Group Last Call in the week after the meeting.
This will be a month long.

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Corinne Cath presents discussion about IEEE on human rights

http://standards.ieee.org/develop/indconn/ec/autonomous_systems.html

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Marco Hoogewoning says that bringing in speakers from the outside only makes
sense if they lead to a draft.

Shane Kerr responds that speakers should be encouraged even if they're
not part of a specific draft; this is a research group.

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Ideas were requested for future work. Some ideas offered included:

-Shane Kerr wants to know whether this is a group to discuss/try to address
anonymity.  Unpacking anonymity as a future work item.

- Marco suggested some potential future collaboration with folks who are
looking at the ethics of RIPE atlas, or other data gathering processes
like reviews going on with DNS OARC.  Might be good people to ask for
documents or as speakers.

- Queston of how can protest be done on the Interent given that any sort of
attack, e.g. DDOS, should be avoided.

- The role of ethics in doing meansurement

- Supporting draft-hall-censorship-tech. Stephen Farrell mentioned this will
take place in SAAG.