MOPS Minutes

30 October 2020

AD: Éric Vyncke
Chairs: Kyle Rose, Leslie Daigle
Technical advisor: Glenn Deen

Note taker: Glenn Deen with help from Eric Vyncke
Jabber Scribe: Kyle Rose

Agenda

• Note well
• Agenda Bash
• called for and had no modification
• Draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons document working session
• IETF109 planning

Draft: draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons

Draft Milestone dates

• Jake Holland: Milestone status, target was Nov 2020 to begin last call but due to Covid-19 situation progress is broadly delayed. Propose moving the milestone out to June-July due to other demands as opposed to earlier like March.
• Eric Vyncke: Moving the milestone out is acceptable, possibly March. Better a moved milestone, met, than an unchanged milestone that is far past overdue.
  After some group discussion - End of April was proposed by Jake. Coauthors will be consulted and discussion to finalize date will be moved to the list (Jake et al will provide proposed date on the list next week.)

Group then moved onto reviewing the open issues for the document on GitHub where there has been a lot of ongoing discussions.

GitHub issue #3: Low-Latency vs. Others

Github Issue #3 Low-latency vs. others

• Jake Holland: Presented the current Issue #3 which is a scoping issue for the WG. "Realtime comms" advice was/is out of scope in MOPS charter. There has been good feedback on github on this issue with a number of people making productive comments. Proposes the path forward is to have text saying "MOPS acknowldges the use case exists and give pointers to relevant technology"
• Jake: Called out/cited a proposal in Pull Request #27 to resolve the Low Latency discussion.
• Glenn Deen: noted that there is an ingest protocol proposal in dispatch for webRTC ingest that is related to Ultra Low Latency aquisition draft-murillo
• Alex Gouaillard - (one of the authors of the dispath draft) the proposal in dispatch is a signalling protocol for media control. Control aspects was explicitely out of scope of the MOPS charter.
• Leslie: It seems to make sense to include a link in the doc to the dispatch proposal/work.
• Jake Holland: There is an additional item proposed on scope that should be broken out as a distinct issue. Spencer has +1'd the idea and Jake will be looking at breaking it out as a new issue.
• Jake: how do people feel about this topic? Are we expanding the scope of MOPS and how are people feeling about it?
• Eric: We're just documenting issues here and capturing information, it's not necessarily expanding the scope of MOPS it's just capturing information in a broad document.
• Leslie: Concerned that we don't drift into problem statements that are in other areas. It's good to capture and document that we are continuing and thinking about the issue to avoid ii.
• Eric Vyncke: Noted Barry Leiba the AD which Dispatch is present on the call today - what does Barry think?
• Barry Leiba: See's no scope creep in the way things are currently proceeding.

Over all conclusion: The current approach is going ok, and shall continue.

• Mike English: Q - Is the current document focused on just current industry practice or looking beyond? Suggested keeping to current industry practice so as not to over step.
• Jake: Good question. The goal of making this an information RFC is to make something that doesn't go immediatly out of date, but does need to capture industry practice, while keeping open to new developments.

GitHubIssue #13 (caching and cache pre-loading)

Github Issue #13 Applicability of pre-placement and caching

• Jake: Adding fragmented MP4 as per Spencer's suggestion makes sense. Encourages people to look at it, and barring any objections would like to get fragmented MP4 into the next draft version. Asked if anyone else had a comment:

• no comments made by attendees

Solications Update

• Jake: Not much received, maybe one. Template for solications low yield so far. Comments have been made but Jake would like to have additional comments from industry made. Should we consider publicising at other SDO events to solicit input/comment.
• Kyle - Any ideas on venues to put it this out to in order to get more industry input?
• Leslie: I've raised it on the SVA call. Q to Glenn as he's the chair of a WG at SVA - can we do more to promote in his SVA WG?
• Glenn: Yes we can add that on SVA WG calls. Also suggests put it up at MHV in December - Q to Ali (a MHV organizer) can we have it mentioned at MHV?
• Ali Begen: Yes we could mention it at Mile High Video in December
• Mike English: I can post to slack for video developers asking for input on issue.

Quickly Reviewed other Open Issues

GitHub document issues

Covid-19 impacts

• Jake - these are a list of other issues that are open and content we plan to fold into the draft in the future.

• Jake - Spencer added a section on unexepected impact of Covid (issue #24) that references an AT&T document. Considering ways to include references to the page/document? Q to group - does anyone have a contact at AT&T that is responsible for the AT&*T. Please send to the authors directly please.

• Leslie: Warren made a suggestion in the chat of a person Jake can contact at AT&T

• Glenn: Q: Is the paper a technical paper, produced by engineers or a Comms doc produced by corporate comms?
• Jake: It's a blog format that doesn't seem to be written by an engineer, but has engineering input.
• Leslie: Is one way to deal with the issue to copy sections of the AT&T doc?
• Kyle: >Pulled up the AT&T page >it is a corporate blog non Covid-19 updates<
• Jake: The blog post material is by date and hard to reference, and may not remain stable (hence making it a poor/unstable reference for the document to use)
• Leslie: the page has 5-6 bullets, perhaps we can quote from the site.
• Eric: 5-6 bullets seems fine to take and quote
• Glenn: Agreed - directly using the 5-6 bullet points in the doc seems reasonable if you include a citation.

• Eric: Note there is an IAB workshop coming up on Covid-19

• Glenn: Do you want us to send a lot of references to be included?

• Jake: We only need a couple and do want to close this section sooner rather than letting is linger open.
• Leslie: We could collect additional references, and can publish if they are useful.
• Jake: Sure, send over references if you have them now.

ADs pull request #18

Pull Request #18

• Jake: Received some input from Matt Stock in a Pull Request on Advertising. Will ping him to check status.

• Jake & Leslie discussed the line between when to list someone as co-author/contribtor. Matt has been unresponsive since the first suggested text/authorship.

• Leslie suggested taking the input as it stands and listing Matt as a contributor, unless or until it becomes clear that he's willing and able to take on responsibilities and responsiveness for authoring.
• Mike English: Works with Matt Stock. Can work with him further on the pull request. Will reach out to Matt S.

Looking ahead to IETF 109

• Leslie: Currently - agenda is in draft mode - looking for topic proposals for the IETF109 MOPS session.

• Leslie: One possible item is to discuss the MOPS interim notes, from this session, and use a prompt for additional discussing on the items covered today.

• Q. Spencer from Jabber room is anyone participating in the IAB Covid workshop?

• Glenn: Comcast has submitted a position paper to the Workshop. No surprise - video streaming remains the #1 use of the network during covid, even with the increase in video conferencing.

• IETF109 topics:

• Jake: will there be an SVA update?

• Leslie: yes will track down to see if SVA has an update.

• Alex Gouaillard: What about new media related work at the IETF such as WebTransport (quicTransport and HTTP/3 for media to web browsers) and SFrame (protocol independent E2E Media Encryption)- maybe ask Will Law to present webtransport?

• Eric V. Good idea. Especially if material is already written for other groups presentations. Having groups cross present is a good idea and is in keeping in the role of MOPS as a WG.

Meeting ended @ 10:05am PDT

Bluesheet

1. Éric Vyncke, Cisco
2. James Gruessing, No affiliation
3. Jake Holland, Akamai
4. Mike English, Limelight
5. Alex. Gouaillard, CoSMo
6. Renan Krishna, Interdigital Europe Ltd.
7. Lucas Pardue, Coudflare
8. Glenn Deen, Comcast-NBCUniversal
9. Carsten Bormann, TZI
10. Xavier de Foy, Interdigital
11. Warren Kumari, Google
12. Kyle Rose, Akamai
13. Ali C. Begen, Networked Media
14. Leslie Daigle, ThinkingCat Enterprises
15. Spencer Dawkins, Tencent America LLC
16. Barry Leiba, Futurewei Technologies