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Minutes interim-2022-httpbis-04: Wed 21:00

Meeting Minutes HTTP (httpbis) WG
Title Minutes interim-2022-httpbis-04: Wed 21:00
State Active
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Last updated 2022-10-18


HTTP WG Minutes: October 2022

Resumable Uploads

Marius discusses the status of the draft.

Issue 2239 - server-generated token/URI or client token

Martin: (in chat) 1xx means server-generated token is delivered in parallel

Mnot: if we have multiple uses for different styles, can we do both?

Marius: yes, maybe

Martin: doing both is a failure outcome - when we fail to consider all of the use cases. a lot of the reason for doing client-generated tokens seem to depend on everything completing in one round trip, but that is at odds with the goals of resumable uploads, which take longer

Marius: there are cases where things take less time, such as lots of small resources

Issue 2240 and Issue 2243 - feature detection and transparent upgrade to resumable

There is interest in integrating this feature into HTTP stacks on platforms (like browsers and servers), make it available via upgrade; is there enough interest to do this?

Guoye (chat): some interest in integrating this in the client library so that its use is transparent to applications

Issue 2247 - Browser compatibility

Can we make these work in such a way that they're compatible with existing browsers?

Martin: Lots of work to get this to work with Fetch, either teaching fetch about 1xx generically or to teach it about this new 1xx so that uploads are good.

Lucas: there is a difference between exposing the machinery so that JS apps can fill in the gaps and doing this inside fetch. the latter might be easier; 100-continue is handled today magically, so that people don't need to deal with it. I don't really appreciate the complexities.

Mnot: agree with Lucas. it is possible to oversell how hard it is, but generally the hardest part is getting browsers to commit to it; I would shy away from designing a generic 1XX API, which might be hard (think security/privacy implications).

Guoye: we have two use cases - browser/generic client where we want most uploads upgraded; the other is where people want to do the work for itself. we should make feature detection optional; for the browser, we depend on the new 1xx, others can use this themselves, possibly without the 1xx (just by understanding that the resource supports resumption). If we switch to a server-generated token, we need to consider both cases.

Austin: in chat raises a point about Idempotency-Key (HTTP API WG proposal)

Mnot: sense is that these are adjacent, but not overlapping

Julian: in chat asks about 103 status in implementations

Mnot: yep, still working through that


Justin: it's perfect, clearly; time to go to WGLC

Mnot: need to think about what we need to do to get the appropriate level of review

Justin: SECDIR?

Mnot: we already got one, we might ask for another

Justin: might be a good idea to get another ahead of IESG review

Justin: don't think that this needs the same level of analysis as TLS 1.3

Mnot: we need clarity about the right level of review

Chris Wood: I was surprised to see this in WGLC without some security analysis, particularly considering the complexity of the spec; I don't think that being at this layer absolves it of responsibility for getting analysis; perhaps SECDIR or some security folks need to work out what the right bar is; I'm sure we will be able to find someone to do the analysis, but without that analysis I'm concerned

Justin: might need to get ADs in the room

Lucas in chat: maybe SECDir can advise on the level of analysis that is appropriate

Mnot: ?

Lucas: question about digest examples in the draft; happy to help

Justin: discussion about covering message content, using digest, with a non-normative example of that


Quick status update

dveditz: was the redirect problem in all cases or just for same-site lax by default cases?

steven: Chrome applies a POST exception; so we have a two-minute window in which we (Chrome?) let cookies through; the result of some experiments was that we need more information; will take a number of months to work this out

dveditz: mozilla is considering not implementing samesite lax by default due to being able to rely on partitioning

QUERY Method

Some remaining open issues (6). Julian is looking for help with these.

Client Cert Header Field

A few small things to do before completion. 9110 terminology changes needed; easy. how to signal if a cert isn't acceptable

mnot: generally agree that the proxy is responsible for managing signaling the error (?)

martin: the problem is that the proxy can't synthesize TLS-layer errors from HTTP-layer signals, at least not generically; made a suggestion on the PR

problem with cert-chain description; need to allow for either copying from TLS or constructing a certification path on its own

mnot: this is an informational spec

(longer discussion about how to construct text for this problem; suggestions in GitHub; seem to be settling on something like

Lucas: cloudflare does have a header that we give to people for client certificate validation; a spec would improve some of that

Alternative Services

Mike: not a lot of movement because we're spinning up a design team to talk about what the successor draft looks like; some of these will be addressed or put out of scope

Meeting soon


One open editorial issue in -01. WGLC?

Lucas: there is a danger of face-planting here, if ORIGIN and all the stuff that comes with it work, then fine; but there are lots of other stuff around this that could take a big redesign

Mike: I have some changes I'd like to make, but that would break compatibility



Adding the Date type - in this draft, standalone, or a revision of SF?

Martin: revise SF

Mnot: doesn't like being the guinea pig

Justin: likes the ABNF from a implementation perspective; the paint is barely dry on 8941, but apart from that strange feeling, I don't see a reason not to; we'd eventually do a bis to collect the additions

Mnot: probably go with a SF revision; need to keep scope in check