Minutes interim-2023-cellar-04: Tue 19:00
minutes-interim-2023-cellar-04-202304251900-00

Meeting Minutes Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission (cellar) WG
Date and time 2023-04-25 19:00
Title Minutes interim-2023-cellar-04: Tue 19:00
State Active
Other versions markdown
Last updated 2023-05-02

minutes-interim-2023-cellar-04-202304251900-00

CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting

| Date | Time | Local Times |
| :-: :-: :-
| 2023-04-25 21:00 Amsterdam | Time Converter | |
| Note | Meeting time is anchored to Amsterdam | |

Administrivia

INFO:

https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2023-cellar-04-cellar
https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/tree/master/interim-2023-04
**Note that we're now pointing to the Github repo for chair notes here**

MEETING INFO and WEB CONFERENCE:

info:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2023-cellar-04/session/cellar

https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/interim/?short=d591c30a-d20a-407b-81d2-00f4529d4cc5

note that chat is now Zulip:
https://zulip.ietf.org/login/#narrow/stream/cellar
but is accessible via meetecho interface.

Shared HedgeDoc for notetaking

Now using the Datatracker assigned notepad at:
https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2023-cellar-04-cellar

  • Note that if you log in to the IETF datatracker, you'll be able to
    edit/clarify/correct these notes, add your name to attendee lists,
    etc.

  • Please ask Michael or Spencer if you have questions.

2023 virtual interim meeting dates

Agenda Items

Note Well:

https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/
Please be KIND to each other.

Roll call

Attendees

  • Spencer Dawkins
  • Steve Lhomme
  • Martijn van Beurden
  • Jérôme Martinez
  • Michael Niedermayer

Accept draft minutes from 2023-04-04

  • Martijn said they looked fine, no objections to accepting them.

WG status update

| Draft | State | Date Posted | Plans |
| :- :- :- :-
| draft-ietf-cellar-chapter-codecs-02 | ID Exists | 2022-12-04 | |
| draft-ietf-cellar-codec-10 | ID Exists | 2022-12-04 | |
| draft-ietf-cellar-control-02 | ID Exists | 2022-12-04 | |
| draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-20 | ID Exists | 2022-12-05 | |
| draft-ietf-cellar-flac-08 | Submitted to IESG for Publication | 2023-04-03 | |
| draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-16 | Waiting for Writeup::AD Followup | 2023-04-01 | Last Call ended 2023-02-28 |
| draft-ietf-cellar-tags-10 | ID Exists | 2022-12-04 | |

Milestone review:

  • was: IESG Balloting is next step for Matroska
  • was: AD Evaluation is next step for FLAC

Matroska issues - Discussion of Last Call comments on the call.

  • Any issues from WGLC, IETF Last Call and random Internet reviews?
  • Our SECDIR review is overdue for this document
  • No activity on this document since our last virtual meeting

FLAC issues - Discussion on the call

  • Spencer has sent this to the IESG requesting publication
  • Martijn has added a pull request #212 for the media-type review
  • Spencer has updated the shepherd write-up for the media-type review
  • No update required until we get the AD Evaluation comments back from
    Murray

FFV1 v4 issues - Discussion on the call

  • We don't need to talk about this during today's meeting - no cycles
    to work on updates
  • (We have working group censensus that three weeks is really short)

AOB?

Previous Minutes - CELLAR -- DRAFT MINUTES from Virtual Interim Meeting

| Date | Time | Local Times |
| :-: :-: :-
| 2023-04-04 21:00 Amsterdam | Time Converter | |
| Note | Meeting time is anchored to Amsterdam | |

Administrivia

INFO:

https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2023-cellar-03-cellar
https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/tree/master/interim-2023-03
**Note that we're now pointing to the Github repo for chair notes here**

MEETING INFO and WEB CONFERENCE:

info:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2023-cellar-03/session/cellar

https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/interim/?short=c47aaec5-cac1-4f36-b0de-0fda91c8d4e6

note that chat is now Zulip:
https://zulip.ietf.org/login/#narrow/stream/cellar
but is accessible via meetecho interface.

Shared HedgeDoc for notetaking

Now using the Datatracker assigned notepad at:
https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2023-cellar-03-cellar

  • Note that if you log in to the IETF datatracker, you'll be able to
    edit/clarify/correct these notes, add your name to attendee lists,
    etc.

  • Please ask Michael or Spencer if you have questions.

2023 virtual interim meeting dates

Agenda Items

Note Well:

https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/
Please be KIND to each other.

Roll call

Attendees

  • Spencer Dawkins
  • Michael Richardson
  • Martijn van Beurden
  • Steve Lhomme
  • Martin Below
  • Michael Niedermayer
  • Dave Rice

Accept draft minutes from 2023-02-28

  • Accepted without objection

WG status update

| Draft | State | Date Posted | Plans |
| :- :- :- :-
| draft-ietf-cellar-chapter-codecs-02 | ID Exists | 2022-12-04 | |
| draft-ietf-cellar-codec-10 | ID Exists | 2022-12-04 | |
| draft-ietf-cellar-control-02 | ID Exists | 2022-12-04 | |
| draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-20 | ID Exists | 2022-12-05 | |
| draft-ietf-cellar-flac-08 | Waiting for WG Chair Go-Ahead | 2023-04-03 | |
| draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-16 | Waiting for Writeup::AD Followup | 2023-04-01 | Last Call ended 2023-02-28 |
| draft-ietf-cellar-tags-10 | ID Exists | 2022-12-04 | |

Milestone review:

  • IESG Balloting is next step for Matroska
  • AD Evaluation is next step for FLAC

Matroska issues - Discussion of Last Call comments on the call.

  • Any issues from WGLC, IETF Last Call and random Internet reviews?
  • We have received a General Area Review Team review, and replied to
    it
  • (Spencer notes that the Security Directorate review is overdue)
  • Should we start a new document for version 5? We can do that, but we
    should expect to focus on review and ballot comments during IESG
    Review
  • What about EMBLv2? We can start that, because EBMLv1 has been
    published as an RFC, and Matroska v5 will rely on rational number
    support in EBMLv2

FLAC issues - Discussion on the call

  • Document was revised on 2023-04-04
  • Spencer thinks -08 is Just Fine, as far as his previous comments go
  • We've had some discussion on the mailing list - have we converged?
    Yes
  • Does anyone need to look at -08 diffs? No one asked for this on the
    call, and Martijn leaves PRs open for a couple of weeks before
    merging and closing.
  • Next step on this - Spencer will post formal shepherd write-up and
    Request Publication

FFV1 v4 issues - Discussion on the call

  • Dave: last meeting, I promised to send an email nudge to the working
    group but I hadn't done that yet. for v4 I think we just need to
    stir up some discussion
  • The wish list is in issue tracker:
    https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFV1/issues
  • We will go through the issues and prioritize them in GitHub.
  • Dave will send a wakeup call on the mailing list.

RFC Errata versus GitHub Issues?

  • The issue is that GitHub documents have both errata as well as new
    features and other changes for which there might not be consensus
  • RFCs don't change, but we can either post issues and changes in
    GitHub, and batch these changes up to go through an IETF publication
    process at some point, or rely on the RFC Errata system
  • We prefer to rely on GitHub, but we should file errata for technical
    errors
  • Proposal is to branch off on publication, so github has the formal
    fixes on the rfcxyz branch, and the master is work in progress
  • The README.ml file in each repository for a specification that has
    been published as an RFC should explain where to look for (1) the
    published RFC, (2) the corrected RFC, if "Verified" errata exist,
    and (3) the next version of the RFC, including changes that would
    not have IETF consensus (yet), if work is underway on a revision.
  • Matroska's github has only source code that is hard to read for
    visitors, so maybe work with releases
  • We will start with EBML, which is our only published RFC so far,
    and get that repo set up the way we think all of our repos should be
    set up.
  • We will revisit this at our next meeting.

AOB?

  • Dave Rice noted that this year's No Time To Wait overlaps IETF 118
    in Prague, and is also in Prague - this is a great opportunity for
    overlapping
  • Spencer will talk about the post-WGLC publication process at a
    future meeting
  • Next meeting is 2023-04-25