Minutes interim-2023-cellar-09: Tue 19:00
minutes-interim-2023-cellar-09-202310241900-00

Meeting Minutes Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission (cellar) WG
Date and time 2023-10-24 19:00
Title Minutes interim-2023-cellar-09: Tue 19:00
State Active
Other versions markdown
Last updated 2023-10-24

minutes-interim-2023-cellar-09-202310241900-00

CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting

| Date | Time | Local Times |
| :-: :-: :-
| 2023-10-24 21:00 Amsterdam | Time Converter | |
| Note | Meeting time is anchored to Amsterdam | |

Administrivia

INFO:

https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2023-cellar-09-cellar
https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/tree/master/interim-2023-09
**Note that we're now pointing to the Github repo for chair notes here**

MEETING INFO and WEB CONFERENCE:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2023-cellar-09/session/cellar
https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/interim/?short=c24ced1f-dbf1-41ac-97c7-5bbb9697caf1

note that chat is now Zulip:
https://zulip.ietf.org/login/#narrow/stream/cellar
but is accessible via meetecho interface.

Shared HedgeDoc for notetaking

Now using the Datatracker assigned notepad at:
https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2023-cellar-09-cellar

  • Note that if you log in to the IETF datatracker, you'll be able to
    edit/clarify/correct these notes, add your name to attendee lists,
    etc.

  • Please ask Michael or Spencer if you have questions.

2023 virtual interim meeting dates

Agenda Items

Note Well:

https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/
Please be KIND to each other.

Roll call

Attendees

  • Spencer Dawkins
  • Martijn van Beurden
  • Michael Richardson
  • Steve Lhomme
  • Jérôme Martinez
  • Michael Niedermayer
  • Dave Rice

Accept draft minutes from 2023-08-22

(meeting of 2023-09-26 were cancelled)
MINUTES ARE AT: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-interim-2023-cellar-07-202308221900/
  • no objections. Minutes passed.

WG status update

| Draft | State | Date Posted | Plans |
| :- :- :- :-
| draft-ietf-cellar-chapter-codecs-03 | ID Exists | 2023-07-02 | |
| draft-ietf-cellar-codec-11 | ID Exists | 2023-07-02 | |
| draft-ietf-cellar-control-03 | ID Exists | 2023-07-02 | |
| draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-21 | ID Exists | 2023-06-13 | |
| draft-ietf-cellar-flac-12 | IESG Evaluation::AD Followup | 2023-09-27 | |
| draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-21 | IESG Evaluation::AD Followup | 2023-10-22 | |
| draft-ietf-cellar-tags-12 | ID-Exists | 2023-10-22 | |

Milestone review:

Matroska ballot

  • Any other open Comments? Steve is finishing final comments from
    balloting, will submit update in a week or two
  • (We can send the updated doc to the AD during the IETF 118 I-D
    blackout period)

FLAC ballot

  • Discuss question about IANA registry(registries) location

    • We have talked about the registry location in the past
    • The IESG prefers having the registry under IANA control
    • Not maintained (2009-2016), potentially missing entries that
      were squatted on during that time
    • No potential entries were discussed in the FLAC community so no
      cleanup is planned
    • Well-known policy would be First Come First Served, matches FLAC
      community practice in the past
    • Spencer will review a PR adding this to the IANA section

  • Any other open Discuss questions?

    • "Brightly colored fish" - but we're adding a reference for that
    • Making [RFC3533] (Ogg) and [I-D.ietf-cellar-matroska]
      (Matroska) normative references - Ogg is Informational, and
      would need to be followed up by the responsible AD as a downref
    • MP4 document is available, but is 95 euros (Spencer doesn't
      think that's a problem). Remove the summary from our document
      (as out of scope), and point to the MP4 document as informative?
      We actually think we should say "we describe how to put FLAC in
      Ogg and Matroska, but other container formats would also work"
      in our document, and remove the MP4-specific summary
    • Spencer will follow up with Murray on the downref to Ogg
      introduced in IESG Evaluation

  • Any other open Comments?

    • None noted on this call
    • Spencer will work with Martijn on any questions Martijn has
      about responses to the balloting ADs

AOB?

  • Jérôme says we have a patch for FFv1 versions 1-3 (odd width or
    height, and chroma subsampling) that he needs to review again, and
    it may require an errata.

Next meeting is 2023-12-05.

Previous Minutes - CELLAR -- DRAFT MINUTES from Virtual Interim Meeting

| Date | Time | Local Times |
| :-: :-: :-
| 2023-08-22 21:00 Amsterdam | Time Converter | |
| Note | Meeting time is anchored to Amsterdam | |

Administrivia

INFO:

https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2023-cellar-07-cellar
https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/tree/master/interim-2023-07
**Note that we're now pointing to the Github repo for chair notes here**

MEETING INFO and WEB CONFERENCE:

info:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2023-cellar-07/session/cellar

https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/interim/?short=1569fc77-9ef0-450c-bc13-c837a253bc00

note that chat is now Zulip:
https://zulip.ietf.org/login/#narrow/stream/cellar
but is accessible via meetecho interface.

Shared HedgeDoc for notetaking

Now using the Datatracker assigned notepad at:
https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2023-cellar-07-cellar

  • Note that if you log in to the IETF datatracker, you'll be able to
    edit/clarify/correct these notes, add your name to attendee lists,
    etc.

  • Please ask Michael or Spencer if you have questions.

2023 virtual interim meeting dates

Agenda Items

Note Well:

https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/
Please be KIND to each other.

Roll call

Attendees

  • Spencer Dawkins
  • Michael Richardson
  • Martijn van Beurden
  • Steve Lhomme
  • Michael Neidermeier

Accept draft minutes from 2023-06-27

MINUTES ARE AT: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-interim-2023-cellar-06-202306271900/
  • no objections. Minutes passed.

WG status update

| Draft | State | Date Posted | Plans |
| :- :- :- :-
| draft-ietf-cellar-chapter-codecs-03 | ID Exists | 2023-07-02 | |
| draft-ietf-cellar-codec-11 | ID Exists | 2023-07-02 | |
| draft-ietf-cellar-control-03 | ID Exists | 2023-07-02 | |
| draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-21 | ID Exists | 2023-06-13 | |
| draft-ietf-cellar-flac-10 | AD Evaluation::Revised I-D needed | 2023-08-04 | |
| draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-19 | thru IESG evaluation | 2023-08-12 | Last Call ended 2023-02-28 |
| draft-ietf-cellar-tags-10 | ID-Exists | 2023-07-02 | |

Milestone review:

  • was: IESG Balloting underway, waiting for DISCUSS to clear
  • was: AD Evaluation done, revisition needed

Matroska issues - Discussion of Last Call comments on the call.

  • John Scudder DISCUSS still marked open
  • John pointed out that we have nine errata in Reported status on a
    Normative reference. We think all of them are legit (they came
    through the working group itself). We need Murray to mark them as
    Verified in the Errata system.
  • John asked a question on Matroska tags being normative - it's
    correct that the Matroska specification is normative for the
    Matroska tags specification, but not vice versa. One could use
    Matroska chapters for some use cases without using Matroska tags at
    all. Most media players don't support Matroska tags, and they don't
    need to - tags are of most interest to archivists, not to Matroska
    player implementers

FLAC issues - Discussion on the call

  • Discussion of issues raised by AD
  • Martijn will remove the mention of RFC 6838 from the next version of
    the draft.
  • Martijn will move the reference to RFC 7942 to the Normative
    references section, and will add the "Note to RFC Editor - please
    remove this entire section before publication, as well as the
    reference to RFC 7942" text to the implementation section.
  • The IEC document is not necessary to read before implementing FLAC
  • These issues will be resolved in the next version of the draft,
    version -11
  • Spencer will read through -11 one more time, and then tell Murray
    it's ready for IETF Last Call

AOB?

  • we will not ask for an agenda slot at IETF 118, but we note that
    NTTW will be occuring nearby the same week, so anything we do at
    IETF 118 can be an informal side meeting that happens at NTTW

    • this may give us more cross-fertilization between the CELLAR
      community and the IETF community than a formal IETF meeting
      slot, since NTTW attendees would be required to pay for IETF
      registration in order to attend a formal IETF meeting slot
    • we will update the IETF 118 side meeting wiki with the
      information about NTTW
    • we could also announce NTTW as a HotRFC talk on Sunday night of
      the IETF 118 meeting week - we can decide that at almost the
      last minute

  • finished at 21:45 Amsterdam time

Next meeting is 2023-09-26.

Previous Minutes - CELLAR -- DRAFT MINUTES from Virtual Interim Meeting