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Early Review of draft-ietf-raw-technologies-06

Request Review of draft-ietf-raw-technologies
Requested revision No specific revision (document currently at 08)
Type Early Review
Team Routing Area Directorate (rtgdir)
Deadline 2023-04-01
Requested 2023-03-10
Requested by John Scudder
Authors Pascal Thubert , Dave Cavalcanti , Xavier Vilajosana , Corinna Schmitt , János Farkas
I-D last updated 2023-04-02
Completed reviews Rtgdir Early review of -06 by Victoria Pritchard (diff)
Please review preparatory to sending to IESG. Thanks!
Assignment Reviewer Victoria Pritchard
State Completed
Request Early review on draft-ietf-raw-technologies by Routing Area Directorate Assigned
Posted at
Reviewed revision 06 (document currently at 08)
Result Not ready
Completed 2023-03-31

I have been selected to do a routing directorate “early” review of this
This review was requested in advance of sending the document to the IESG.

The routing directorate will, on request from the working group chair,
perform an “early” review of a draft before it is submitted for publication
to the IESG. The early review can be performed at any time during the
draft’s lifetime as a working group document. The purpose of the early
review depends on the stage that the document has reached.
For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see

Document: draft-ietf-raw-technologies-06.txt
Reviewer: Victoria Pritchard
Review Date: 20/03/2023-31/3/2023
Intended Status: Informational

I have significant concerns about this document. It needs more work before
being submitted to the IESG.


First I'll admit I've not been following the discussion in the RAW working
group, and maybe that's why I found this tough to read. Parts of it were
really clear about the applicability of the different technologies
highlighted, but I found a lot of it did not flow well, and contained a lot
of information that either seemed too detailed or the relevance to
deterministic flows wasn't made clear. I found myself doing extra research
into the technologies and standards mentioned, especially for 802.11 and
TSCH, and trying to work out why each detail was important, what it was
aiming to highlight, and to fill in gaps where the explanation had assumed
prior knowledge.

What follows is a list of notes I made while reviewing, with some nits
included, but also some suggestions and questions. I apologise in advance
and understand if you disagree with any of my comments, as you may expect
readers to be more familiar with the technologies presented.

Kind regards,


1. Introduction
I think a bit more about DetNet should be included here. DetNet gets
mentioned a few times throughout the doc, might be good to describe very
briefly what DetNet have covered, as well as the existing words about how
additional methods are needed for wireless.
The intro describes PAREO as a group of methods to do this, but the
document is arranged by existing technologies rather than these types of
methods - should probably list the technologies about to be discussed, and
that the document will show how they use these methods to achieve
reliability and availability.

aspect -> aspects
reach -> reaches
must highly -> must be highly
two . .  at end of first bullet point
a external -> external
HARQ and P2MP - would be nice to see the acronym expanded here. Possibly a
short description of HARQ to match the short description of P2MP

2. Terminology
Some items in this Terminology section are not really/clearly used within
the doc:
- Deterministic flow identifier (both L2 and L3)
- Traffic type profile
"that discussion takes place are in" - probalby dont need "are"
"uncommon on protocols" - not sure this makes sense
stochastics -> stochastic
Deterministic Flow Identifier (L3) - extra "." in last sentence.
Downlink only makes sense if you already read Uplink.
Should these be in alphabetical order for easy reference?
Under "traffic type profile" - should it say "has a one-to-one" instead of
"as a one-to-one"?

3.1 Smartrid  -> SmartGrid?
Since timing is out of scope for RAW, could possibly condense some of this?
"As an example, the Precision Time
   Protocol [IEEE 1588 and IEC 61588] is used by a number of protocols
   Ethernet, industrial and Smartgrid protocols and Wi-Fi."
3.2 I would say that " (e.g., after 4 packets lost, within a period of 1
   second)." isn't necessary.

3.3 Nits:
"critical packets of diverse paths" - "critical packets on diverse paths" ?
IOW - does this mean "in other words"?
technoque -> technique
"a nd" -> and

This section might benefit from a brief description of 802.1 TSN after
introducing 802.11, before explaining where 802.11 has brought in support
for TSN and referencing TSN standards.

Naming Timing Measurement Protocol and Fine Timing Measurement doesnt seem
necessary - it's not referred to later, and we were already told timing was
out of scope for RAW. Could be simplified like this:
"Support for TSN time synchronization was introduced in IEEE Std
802.11-2012 and enhanced in IEEE Std 802.11-2016. It uses 802.1AS. The IEEE
Std 802.11-2016 also included the Stream Reservation Protocol (IEEE

I found the 4th paragraph to be an overwhelming list of different standards
and protocols, I felt I needed to look these up individually to see how
this was all relevant, but actually the way the different capabilities were
linked to specifications/certifications later in this section was really
useful and a nicer way to present the standards. If the history and
evolution is important to highlight, I would keep this chronological -
including skipping the first reference to 802.11ax and 802.11be in the 3rd

The bit that starts "As with any wireless media" should be in its own
paragraph - I like how it highlights important considerations.

retroffitted -> retrofitted
Last sentence should say "remainder of this section" and mention 802.11ad
and 802.11ay as section 4.4 discusses these too.

Section 4.2.2 and 4.3.2 do a great job of focusing on relevant developments
of 802.11.

4.2.2 need a space before "Nevertheless" IEEE802.1Qcc first mentioned here - 802.1Qat was previously
mentioned as Stream Reservation Protocol, and 802.1Qcc is an enhancement to
this, it's worth clarifying. first use of MCS but it is not expanded.
"When the network in lightly loaded" -> "When the network is lightly loaded" - the 3rd and 4th sentences in the first paragraph say the same
thing. " Draft" - is this 802.11be?

4.4.1 - extra space at end of first paragraph, missing "." at end of second

Section 5 I found the hardest to read. I think some definitions could be
presented earlier, and some detail could be removed.
These are my notes from my first reading, tidied up after my second.

This section introduces term "Tracks" which is used a lot, before finally
being explained in Could probably leave out this sentence in the
middle of the 3rd paragraph in 5.1 ("Yet the charter...")? But, considering
Tracks are mentioned so much, would consider moving the definition from the
start of to somewhere around here.

I also noticed 6top was mentioned later in the document, though only 6P is
mentioned here. It may be useful for a brief overview, e.g. like the
Terminology section of RFC9030 where it says 6TiSCH defines the 6top layer
etc... and then says 6P operates at that layer enabling neighbour
agreement. Then you could state how 6TiSCH focused on best effort traffic
not quality of service requirements (currently mentioned in 3rd and 6th
paragraphs). Maybe even mention how RPL fits in as RPL is mentioned a few
times later without much introduction.

I got lost in the detail of the 3rd paragraph. I'm not sure the info on
scheduling functions is needed here as it's also mentioned in 5.2.1, could
the detail be moved there?

The 4th paragraph seems misplaced because the 5th paragraph then goes back
to 6TiSCH. Could the paragraph about ISA100.11a and WirelessHART be placed
before the 6TiSCH information?

"Useful References" in this section - I think these would be better as
paragraphs in the text rather than a list - the detail of the references
should just be in the references section later. It would be good to include
a sentence about why each is considered useful.
1. 802.15.4 is already referenced in the text so doesnt need repeating.
2. It is not explained why this is relevant.
3. Again doesn't explain why this is a useful reference. It's also not
clear from the reference title itself that it is about 802.15.4, so I
initially wondered if it's a more general reference about the benefits of
packet replication, or particularly about packet replication in TSCH, i.e.
whether it should be in this TSCH section or not. Could you add a statement
like: " A study by ... looked at the benefits of packet replication in TSCH
networks." I think it links with your sentence about what RAW can add,
after the ISA100.11a and WirelessHART text.

CoAP is not expanded.

Overall thoughts on 5.1.
I think 5.1 is trying to say "802.15.4 is for low-power low-cost radio. The
2015 update covers TSCH. Interesting standards addressing time sensitive
networking over TSCH include ISA100.11a and WirelessHART, which both define
a central controller computing redundant paths. ISA100.11a has limited IPv6
capabilities, and RAW could help with optimised P2P routing, PAREO
functions and end to end IPv6/CoAP. Also the 6TiSCH group already looked at
IPv6 over TSCH, and defined an architecture which includes a distributed
scheduling mechanism. But 6TiSCH focused on best effort traffic not time
sensitive networking. RAW needs to build on this."
I dont think it flows very well as-is.

Figure 1 - a quick note to expand EB would be nice.

For the statement "managed by a scheduling function such as" MSF - That
scheduling function was defined by 6TiSCH, so it made me wonder how
802.15.4 TSCH defines scheduling functions, since this section is TSCH
general characteristics, not 6TiSCH specifically?

Not sure all the detail is needed here, especially:
"A cell's timeslot offset indicates its position in
   time, relative to the beginning of the slotframe.  A cell's channel
   offset is an index which maps to a frequency at each iteration of the
   slotframe. "
" An Absolute Slot Number (ASN) indicates the number
   of slots elapsed since the network started.  It increments at every
   slot.  This is a 5 byte counter that can support networks running for
   more than 300 years without wrapping (assuming a 10 ms timeslot)."

Is the channel hopping (mentioned at the end of the paragraph below Figure
1) different to the scheduling function (eg MSF) mentioned earlier?

Parts of the final paragraph of 5.2.1 would fit better in 5.2.2 as its more
about the RAW context and further work, rather than the general
characteristics of TSCH.

"This enables to build" -> "This enables building"
ensure -> ensures
"scheduling is a key" -> "scheduling is key"
Again mentions Tracks but they havent really been explained yet.
overprovisionned, overprovisionning -> single n
measu reth excursion -> measure the excursion ? not sure what this means.
iprovides -> provides
I didnt understand the sentence with "(to be)" in brackets:
For that case, the expectation is that a protocol that flows along a
   Track (to be), in a fashion similar to classical Traffic Engineering
   (TE) [CCAMP], may be used to update the state in the devices.

I feel is lacking a bit of intro... Maybe something like: "When
looking at end-to-end communication over TSCH....." or "The nodes can be
provided with their schedules ..." then discuss the Operational Control
System, the PCE computing the tracks and provisioning every hop. I also
feel like this bit of the architecture could have been clearer earlier in
5.1 when introducing 6TiSCH.

So in a hybrid mode, to update Tracks, it wouldnt be driven from the same
control system involving the PCE? I understood from this paragraph that a
potential need has been identified, but there is no design for this flow
yet, and in any case, DetNet is expected to cover this, and the 6TiSCH
neighbour negotiation might be useful in the solution. The bit "for, say,
Packet Delivery Ratio (PDR)" is an extra detail that could be removed to
help keep this concise, maybe the neighbour negotiation part too.

Should Figure 2 have a caption? - Does the information in the following sections cover the most
relevant parts of that section of RFC9030 then?
RPLInstanceID - not explained until Trying to work out if this
is just extra detail or has relevance to RAW. Would it be enough to
simplify to:
"Packets that are routed by a PCE along a Track, are tagged to uniquely
identify the Track and associated transmit bundle of timeSlots."...?

LLN also not expanded. Should 6lo be also?

Figure 4 - what are DP and AP in the caption?

"a'OR'relations" -> "an 'OR' relation" ... or "'OR' relations" ?
a'AND'relation -> "an 'AND' relation"
In general put spaces around 'OR' and 'AND'.
I found it hard to understand this part with 'OR' and 'AND'. Looks like
some of this has come directly from RFC9030 - can it be summarised a
little, or an example given? Can it be related back to Figure 4? The second
paragraph is very similar in content but a bit clearer to read. Thoughts on
simplifying this explanation - maybe something like:
"6TiSCH architecture defines packet replication where timeslots can be
grouped such that if any one of those timeslots results in successful
transmission, the other timeslots (which may be on the same path, or on
other paths) are not needed (the 'OR' relation), or where multiple
transmissions on different paths are required (the 'AND' relation between
Some of this might fit well in the first paragraphs about 6TiSCH in 5.1,
especially mention of RPL as RPLInstanceID is used in a few places without
being explained.
If the route is associated with a track, where is the Instance ID from?
fond  -> found
No "." at end of 1st paragraph.

This starts with 'elaboration can be found' but then elaborates here too,
with sentences duplicated from RFC9030. Can it be condensed a bit to pull
out the most relevant parts?

"SlotFrames and Priorities" isn't the name of the heading in 9030 anymore,
it's "Slotframes and CDU Matrix".

Things that weren't clear from this explanation:
- Does the matrix show scheduled transmissions, i.e. the cells which are
allocated? What's the difference between a CDU and a slotframe? Figure 1
earlier showed a slotframe, which was a matrix of channels and timeslots
- Why/how are multiple CDU matrices used?
- When the text moves on to talk about slotframes, it mentions precedence.
Multiple slotframes of multiple precedence...relating to precedence of
6TiSCH topologies. I suppose this means the slotframe with highest
precedence is honoured first, then perhaps if there are free timeslots, the
slotframe with the next precedence is considered?

At the end of this section, it tries to highlight where the gap is from the
work done in 6TiSCH and what RAW needs to do, but I didnt really understand
the explanation before it. It also uses the phrase "then again" which
suggests the text before it may not be certain? I didnt understand: The PCE
assigns cells to chunks, then appropriation is requested "by the PCE to any
node", but then the PCE owns the chunk? Does it mean the node owns the
chunk, and is this a reference to the part earlier about a hybrid mode? 6TiSCH tracks
PDR - does it mean "packet delivery ratio" here?
I found this section pretty clear but think it might have been useful
earlier. I found these very detailed, not sure if it's all needed. I kept
trying to relate it back to what was relevant for RAW and struggled to keep
focused. I tried to summarise my understanding.
- Track forwarding - Because receive cells are paired to transmit cells, it
doesnt need changes in MAC header, and the protocol contained in the frame
doesnt matter. All cells that were reserved may not be needed, so can be
reused for opportunistic traffic. On the other hand, unscheduled but
necessary retransmissions can use cells which weren't reserved (subject to
some details) and this would be referred to as off-Track. A frame may then
be re-Tracked (ie forwarded in a cell intended for that track).
- Transport and tunnel mode - for transport mode, the metadata already
exists (added by higher layer) so its obvious which track is to be used.
For transport mode, the data would come from a device without the metadata,
but the PCE would specify how to identify that it should be transported
over the track, and where to egress, and metadata would be added on ingress
at the first 6TiSCH router. This bit seems like a lot of detail duplicated
from RFC9030, and I can't really see why it's included.
Note: transport mode seems to be called native mode in RFC9030. Again seems like too much detail. This bit on OAM seems relevant, to mention that more work is
necessary and it highlights useful work in this area.

6.1 - 6.3
There's a lot of detail here about the timeline of different studies and
releases. Would it be clearer to state the aims, its current release, and
mention the existing features/enhancements, and maybe future plans where
6.1 says that Release 18 will support DetNet, but 6.5 and 6.4.5 mention
DetNet with earlier releases.

Figure 10 - expanding some acronyms below the picture may be helpful.

There's a lot of detail on handovers - I guess this is trying to highlight
the elements that make handovers reliable, but could be more concise.

6.4.3 The first paragraph is clear but there's a lot of detail in the rest
of this section, I think the point is to highlight use of retransmissions,
scheduling, coding and modulation for reliability, reporting of link
quality, efficiency, but I found it hard to follow.

((TSC) -> (TSC)
Time- Sensitive -> Time-Sensitive
"the meet their QoS requirements" -> "they meet their QoS requirements"
"reference time in not only" -> "reference time is not only"
Figure 10 is mentioned but I think it means Figure 11, which is closer and
shows 5G-TSN integration as described.
Figure 10, 12, 13 - not sure what DN means.
Figure 11 - DSTT, NWTT not defined (probably device side TSN translator and
network side)
Page 49 final paragraph mentions Figure 13 but describes Figure 12 at the
top of page 50.
"and the core network," -> "and the core network."

Page 49 middle paragraph.
"3GPP release 18 includes a study" ... then at the end of the paragraph
"the standards are ready for such an approach, it is out of scope for the
3GPP Release 18 study item" - This confused me. What bit is out of scope?
Could this change to:
IETF Deterministic Networking (DetNet) is the technology to support
   time-sensitive communications at the IP layer. Note that TSN is the
primary subnetwork technology for
   DetNet.  Thus, the DetNet over TSN work, e.g., [RFC9023], can be
   leveraged via the TSN support built in 5G.  Along the TSC framework
introduced for Release 17, the 5GS acts as a
   DetNet node for the support of DetNet. 3GPP Release 18 includes a study
item [TR2370046] on interworking between 5G and DetNet, showing the
existing approach in Figure 7.1-1 of [TR2370046]. The study item provides
details on how the 5GS is exposed by the Time Sensitive Communication and
Time Synchronization Function
   (TSCTSF) to the DetNet controller as a router on a per UPF
   granularity (similarly to the per UPF Virtual TSN Bridge granularity
   shown in Figure 11).  In particular, it is listed what parameters are
   provided by the TSCTSF to the DetNet controller.  The study also
   includes how the TSCTSF maps DetNet flow parameters to 5G QoS

6.5 Summary
I didn't find this very clear regarding DetNet. Perhaps because I'm not
familiar enough in general with these technologies so I apologise if that's
the case. This section says 5G can be used as subnet technology for DetNet.
Then says "support for integration with TSN reliability was added to 5G by
making DetNet reliability also applicable, thus making 5G DetNet ready".
Was 5G "DetNet ready" before this, because the previous statement says 5G
could be used as subnet technology for DetNet...? Then it also says adding
direct support for DetNet is in scope for release 18... what does "direct
support" mean?

7.2 - CNS not expanded.

7.4.2 Figure 14 - most of the acronyms are explained in the paragraph above
but DCH, DCCH, CCCH, RACH, BCCH are not. It might be too critical of me but
I'd like to see a small mention of them before they are covered in later
paragraphs. Maybe expand them at the bottom of the diagram, or add
something in the sentence introducing Figure 14 e.g. "Data passing between
the Logical Link Control Layer and the Medium Access Layer is categorised
into channels." Or simplify the diagram by taking them out and having clean
lines between the blocks.

7.4.4 page 59
"Resources can either be requested" - there's no matching 'or', you could
remove the "either" since the description of this first option fills the
rest of the paragraph.

I wonder how much of this detail is needed - 7.4 is about applicability to
deterministic flows, so maybe this detail could be reduced to highlight
that, with a reference to the detail?